What will/can Boris do?

[1959_60]

Is he that bothered, indeed did Boris ever even want to leave the EU?
My take has always been that Boris's 'Grand Plan' was to lead a high profile, but not quite successful campaign to leave the EU, after which call me Dave Cameron would resign and Boris could contest the Tory leadership with a pitch along the lines of: "Well I couldn't quite get us out of the EU, so we're stuck with it, but I've proved my credentials as the anti-Europe/Britain first/proper-Tory strong-man who will ensure we get the best possible deal from the EU" and would roll almost unopposed into 10 Downing Street.
That plan went to rat-**** the moment the Brexit campaign was won, or in reality with regard Boris' plan, lost. At which point he moved to Plan-B: Duck for cover until there's been an intervening period of debate and argument (the Theresa May era) trying but ultimately failing to resolve an impossible/no-win situation, but much more importantly creating plenty of scapegoats and then stand for the Leadership. Wherever this debacle of Boris' making heads next, you can be sure that any difficulties/disasters are entirely due to the decisions made by TM & her team over the last two years and nothing whatsoever to do with Boris and his buddies.

I don't think you are far off the mark there afloat.

[1959_60]

Actually there is no such thing as a no deal Brexit to vote against. Article 50 says we leave on October 31st, we can leave with a WA, or we leave without one. But leave we must, unless we ask to stay, and they say yes. Maybe parliament can force Boris to request an extension, but it's then in the gift of the EU whether we stay or not, our parliamentarians will be powerless. And Macron for one has had enough, he wants us out, like yesterday, and the only reason the EU is extending this process is to get their greasy mitts on the £39 billion, once they realise that has gone beyond recall, they'll gladly show us the way out.

The only other way is to revoke A50, but they wouldn't dare do that.

So what you are saying (and I agree by the way) is that nothing will have changed by replacing Theresa with Boris.

If he uses the threat of a no deal then Parliament will block him - as they did with Theresa.

I remember you saying that the EU, especially Macron, would block Theresa's request for an extension to A50 before - but they didn't.

Do you think he can put a deal to Parliament that will get a majority? Me neither.

Groundhog day.

Unless Parliament votes for a Peoples Vote - which they were close to doing last time - then this will run and run.

[sinkov]

Boris does not need to threaten 'no deal', the only thing on the table is a WA which we will not accept. It's the EU's Article 50 that says if we don't have a WA we leave without one, not us. The only thing that will change, as far as I can see, is that we will have a PM who really believes that no deal is better than a bad deal, instead of a liar who used to say it but never meant it, and the EU knew she didn't mean it. Whether this will change attitudes in the EU is debatable, but when they see their £39 billion slipping away, who knows. So far we've never called their bluff, are they really prepared to inflict damage on their own economies as well as ours ? Maybe they are, with May they were never going to be asked the question, Boris may well force them to face up to the consequences of their intransigence, and they know that. They had May in their pocket, they won't control Boris, they won't have a clue what he might do, how can they, he doesn't know himself.

I was driving yesterday so listened to BBC R4 on the subject for a while, it was fascinating, they talked about May's speech, how she emphasised the need for compromise, they spoke to Remain and Leave MPs, all mentioned the need for compromise to get this done, it was a recurring theme. Then they went hear the EU's view in Brussels, then to Dublin to talk to an Irish politician. What was noticeable was the total absence of the word compromise in those two fair cities, the WA is set in stone, no possibilty of re-negotiation, the interviewer never asked them about any compromises they might make, nor did they volunteer any mention of the word. The contrast was stark, just thought I'd mention it.

On Macron you're right 59, I thought he might have us out last time, but they talked him round, he certainly wasn't best pleased though. He wants us out, I don't think he'll back down next time, we'll see.

[1959_60]

Interesting times Sinkov.

I don't think either the UK Government or the EU will be in a position to start chatting again until September/October anyway.

It will be almost August before we have a new PM, then it is the Summer holidays and then the conference season.

Meanwhile we are in the middle of the EU elections followed by their jollys and then a new set of officials will have to be elected.

So we may as well forget about it for a few months.

But beware. If any Tory leadership candidate talks about putting a NEW deal before Parliament which will be voted through then you know they are talking through their arse. A new deal will have to be negotiated with the EU, and they will not be in a position to do this before the new PM has been elected.

[sinkov]

Interesting times Sinkov.

I don't think either the UK Government or the EU will be in a position to start chatting again until September/October anyway.

It will be almost August before we have a new PM, then it is the Summer holidays and then the conference season.

Meanwhile we are in the middle of the EU elections followed by their jollys and then a new set of officials will have to be elected.

So we may as well forget about it for a few months.

But beware. If any Tory leadership candidate talks about putting a NEW deal before Parliament which will be voted through then you know they are talking through their arse. A new deal will have to be negotiated with the EU, and they will not be in a position to do this before the new PM has been elected.

This is most disappointing 59, I can't find anything there I would argue with. Could you at least try to be more contenious please.

[The Bedlington Terrier]

We now need a General Election and we need to vote Labour.

Let’s all stop the silly cartoons of Dianne Abbott and let’s stop smearing Corbyn with the nonsensical IRA traitor malarkey; instead let’s just focus on the real issues, real people are facing in the United Kingdom.

The Labour Party will tackle head on:
Tory fuelled child poverty.

End the Tory stimulated need for food banks.

End needless, counterproductive Tory inspired austerity.

The Labour Party will scrap the obscene and totally unfit for purpose Universal Credit “benefit “system”.

End privatised DWP disability assessments and provide a security net for those in urgent need.

The Labour Party will reverse the wholesale privatisation of the NHS.

The Labour Party will provide a working railway structure for rail passengers in the north of England, with a policy of re-nationalising our whole rail network.

The Labour Party will suspend HS2.

The Labour Party will bring back to our Police force the number of officers required to keep us all safe.

Realign the Criminal Justice System with the Probation Service and make our prisons fit for purpose and provide education and rehabilitation programmes to help prevent reoffending and help bring an end to offender recidivism.

The Labour Party will resume compromise, diplomacy and mothball militarism.

The Labour Party will solve the Brexit crisis by keeping the Customs Union, retaining membership of the Single Market and allowing free movement of EU citizens within the United Kingdom.

I will now strap on the old tin hat and wait for incoming artillery fire…


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[sinkov]

Get back in your box, you daft bugger.

[outwoodclaret]

Who imposed austerity in Greece BT? Was that the Tories? It wasn’t the Greeks. Why do you think solving the Brexit crisis will come about by signing a declaration of surrender? Do you think anyone really believes Labour promises? Have you ever thought of standing as an MP?

[The Bedlington Terrier]

Get back in your box, you daft bugger.

I've noticed you always resort to personal attacks when you are not prepared to articulate a response sinkov.

[1959_60]

"The Labour Party will solve the Brexit crisis by keeping the Customs Union, retaining membership of the Single Market and allowing free movement of EU citizens within the United Kingdom."

BT - I thought you were in favor of leaving without a deal?