Realistic expectations for next season ......

[champs95]

I'm not asking for the league position as much here, as its only fair to do so once we know what kind of players we will have at our disposal next season. It's more a general overview as where people think what kind of season we will be aiming for?

I still am of the mindset that TM and the club have a long-term plan after achieving promotion. It was a case of build for a promotion push over the next 2-3 seasons. That includes last season, where we hit our target of finishing mid-table.
In my opinion, we are absolutely miles off promotion. And the realisation we will never actually get any better or push on has set in. Venky's will hand us a huge war chest to spend. We can't touch it because we only get 12k, on a good day. And that attendance will never ever rise, until we went back up to the Prem. Even then it would attract maybe another 2 or 3 thousand (at the very most) for games vrs Man Utd and Liverpool etc. We will never get back the fans that have left. And if we went up and did what Burnley have done, we will barley get anyone extra in. As floating fans will soon get fed up of seeing us lose at home Wolves. So we just wont grow, therefore investment in the squad is very staggered.

What is exciting, is our academy, and we happen to have a pool of young lads coming through at once. Which is rare. If we introduce them right, and get in the right level of experience alongside them, then we will push on. But that means getting shut of the likes of Mulgrew, Bennett, Smallwood, Evans, Nuttall etc who we simply aren't enabling us to push on. And aren't helping progress the young lads. If anything, it is stunting their growth. The young lads, could make up the defect.

I think another mid-table season awaits, which is fine. And we surely will be looking to consolidate again this season, blood some more young players, and bring on the likes of Butterworth, Buckley, Maglorie, and have a decent go at things next season.
I disagree with this notion we need to bring in another Danny Graham to help Graham out. We bought Brereton for a reason, not to bring in another journeyman to knock him further back in the pecking order. He HAS to be starting games at the beginning of next season, and we also have Samuel. If its looking like Brereton still wont make it, then we need to think about what to do. He wont improve sitting on a bench being 3rd or 4th choice striker. He may even need a loan out somewhere? Who knows until we actually play him. If we never use him, we will never know.

Who we get in, who leaves, dictates how well we do . But I think it will be another season similar to last, with the following season being the one we want to try and go for it. I think only 4 or 5 tops will be playing this season, who played last. Its a gradual process, done on a budget. Fans like me, have to be alot more patient than I was last season. Its a tough league, with not much inbetween every side from top to bottom. It's finding consistency, throughout the season. The Venky's first question to TM and Waggott on their trip out the other week, was 'what went wrong in those 2 months last season? What can we do to prevent that next season? What do you need to push on?'
Its that dilemma they will be looking to address, which I don't think is solvable in one season.

[seventwo]

We need to keep the work rate and intensity up.
Three new players are a priority, a commanding goalkeeper, an equally commanding centre half and a midfielder who can supply the final pass.
If we can get wing backs that will make 3 at the back possible even better.

[robinrover]

We should be around the play offs this season in terms of where we should be aiming for,however currently we are close to the drop.
There is a good month to see what we will have coming in or going,so I am not getting too excited or despondent yet.

[AucklandRover]

Champs' point about Brereton and Samuel is interesting, but the problem for me is that I don't see either of them as a No.9 - same with Butterworth and Vale. All of those strike me as better suited to the "secondary striker" role. Nuttall IS more a Graham type, but I'm not sure he's quite good enough at Championship level.
Obviously, we don't have to play an out-and-out No.9 in EVERY game, but people like Dack DO benefit from Graham's hold-up and lay-off skills. I just haven't seen much evidence that Brereton is suited to the back-to-the-goal, rough stuff that DG handles so well.
None of this is a problem if Graham is available for 46 games, but that's a big risk to take.

[champs95]

Champs' point about Brereton and Samuel is interesting, but the problem for me is that I don't see either of them as a No.9 - same with Butterworth and Vale. All of those strike me as better suited to the "secondary striker" role. Nuttall IS more a Graham type, but I'm not sure he's quite good enough at Championship level.
Obviously, we don't have to play an out-and-out No.9 in EVERY game, but people like Dack DO benefit from Graham's hold-up and lay-off skills. I just haven't seen much evidence that Brereton is suited to the back-to-the-goal, rough stuff that DG handles so well.
None of this is a problem if Graham is available for 46 games, but that's a big risk to take.

You could argue that the system we played and stuck with, didn't work or wasn't effective in over half the games. So we must at least consider changing it. TM said the other day, the system we will play will be dependant the pool of players we have at our disposal. If we got in another journeyman striker it would be him or - Graham - then Dack in behind, with Armstrong or Chapman or Samuel or Brereton (if he isn't going to be considered up front) out wide. That's with Butterworth waiting in the wings, Vale is probably a little too young to be playing in the first team next season. Not to mention Nuttall, who like you say maybe isn't good enough for the Champ.
IMO ....that's too many ....Brereton played up front vrs Bolton, scored and lead the line very well. He gives us an option we simply don't have with Graham. Pace in behind, but I feel his strength is running from deep. Graham's strength is his excellent hold up play. I just feel, our style of play was sussed out pretty quickly and easily once teams saw what we where going to do.
Stop the supply to Dack, give him no space and you stop us. We must try find another way of playing. But we are too heavy in certain positions. And way way too light in others.
We need to strengthen in defence and midfield and keeper, ultimately what cost us last season. We have Samuel coming back and plenty in the squad already upfront. We have virtually nothing to spend, so we need to be clever in who, what and where we do spend our money. I'm unsure we actually need an 8th attacking player, when we only actually have one centre half at our club.

[AucklandRover]

I see exactly what you're saying, Champs, but my worry is what we would do if Graham did a knee-ligament or something similar. In that instance, we would definitely need Nuttall to still be available, because I can't really picture any of the others in a traditional No.9 role. We have a queue for Dack's position, but I think it would be a risk to go into a season totally dependent on a lone 34-year-old to lead the line.
Who knows - that could be Nuttall's big opportunity, but (like you) I'm not 100% confident that he's up to it.
Otherwise, it would have to be Samuel, and we haven't really seen enough of him to know if he can do the hold-up job.
As you say, Brereton simply doesn't look like the target-man type at the moment. He likes to run at a defence.
As I said before, you don't have to start with a traditional centre-forward in every match, but I'm still uneasy at the idea of, say, a Dack, Armstrong, Brereton/Rothwell front three. I can see that line-up being too easily out-muscled.

[champs95]

Yeah I agree Aucks. I really hope Samuel gives us that extra up front. He was starting to look useful at the start of last season, and was so unlucky to get injured. If he starts the pre season playing in that position and looks ok, that saves a signing. And we strengthen in another area. We may not get the chance to get all our targets.
And it's all so up in the air until the players are all back and clubs & agents as doing deals.
Grealish could be leaving to go to Spurs by all accounts. And they may well look to get Dack in as a replacement. That example causes a big knock on. As it gives us more options but hopefully we have a back up plan incase the worst happens. Which would be in he left too late for us to get anyone in. I do believe however, that Venkys have told TM we don't need to sell. Certainly not our key assets. We have a tight budget, because we have a 2-3 year plan where we want to build slowly.
But as I say on the other thread, I'm puzzled why we would be interested in Whelan at that age? That to me makes no sense.

[alfinyalcabo]

A mid table finish for you lads next season..

[AucklandRover]

A mid table finish for you lads next season..

I tend to agree, Alf.
What I'd like to see most is the establishment of, say, three more youngsters.
As for Burnley, I can see you being comfortably clear of the relegation-zone again. You've got that experience of knowing what it takes now, and I can see you winning quite a high percentage of what might be called the "bottom twelve" battles.
I wouldn't be too surprised to see Everton challenging for fifth or sixth place, actually. Otherwise, I imagine it will be the usual PL Divisions 1 and 2 scenario.