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Thread: O/T Jeremy corbyn

  1. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydoo View Post
    He has already stated that he has never voted Tory.

    What's your issue with that? Ditto. I support more policies on the right of centre than left but I've never voted Tory either. As much as I hate this Jeremy Kyle society we live in, I hate the filthy rich tax avoiders and 'illuminati' even more.

    What's so hard for you to understand, when a bloke is analytical and concludes, in his opinion, your politics don't work. It's pretty clear you are an activist and truly believe you know best.

    Do something better with your time. The amount of time it takes you to paste, research, then cut and paste on here every week, would be better served with a part time voluntary job. Go and do your bit.

    'Blinkered you see'

    Any neutral observer on here, would say you post too much and most definitely have an agenda.
    I'm sure Kerr doesn't need you sticking up for him Howdy.

    So you have a problem with me challenging Kerr's political stances but you don't mind Kerr challenging mine?

    You reckon that I think I'm always right when I challenge Kerr's (or anyone's) views but don't think that Kerr (or anyone else) thinks that they are right when they challenge me (or anyone else)?

    You think that I'm an 'activist' for expressing my political opinions when others express their with just as much passion?

    You think that I'm on here 'copy/pasting' too much but Kerr and many others aren't, even though some of them post far more than I do?

    You think that I have an agenda, but others do not?

    Just for the record I do not start any political posts on here. But I find that many posters put forward their own agendas either by starting threads or contributing avidly to them. Do they not have an agenda? They are starting them? Or is that ok and you turn the other way just because you happen to agree with their politics? The VAST majority of posts started on here push the agenda of 'right wing' politics and I (and others) probably in all futility challenge these ideas in most cases as the political argument is interesting (for the record, I may disagree fervently with Kerr but I respect his points of view and would probably get on very well if we met for a beer) or, less frequently because I find points that there is such a strong lean to the right (the new footy fan I suppose) that there needs to be counter balance.

    I'm quite happy that I contribute to society thanks. This is a futile advancement that gets thrown at Kerr whenever he goes into expanded arguments and I would agree with him that it is a distraction from people that don't like what he is saying and simply want him to go away. I think it a shame that you should resort to such childish pointedness. Kerr is more than capable of looking after himself and if he wants to spar away, then I am happy to exchange views. Some are petty, some are pointless, some are stimulating and I've taken some things on board from him. At least he isn't of the bigot-brigade and for that I am grateful.

  2. #402
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    So youíre not an activist then?

    I think you are.

    Might be wrong but doubt it.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydoo View Post
    So you’re not an activist then?

    I think you are.

    Might be wrong but doubt it.
    What do you mean by 'Activist'? I go to some Labour Party meetings, went to a momentum meeting back in 2017 but it wasn't for me, and attended a Hope Not Hate meeting a couple of weeks ago to look at ways we could counter race/religious hate crimes in our local community. If you define 'activists as someone who campaigns to bring about social/political change' then I guess I am. But isn't anyone who argues with others about politics/social issues, attends meetings, writes letters to papers/council/anyone is the same? And why is that a bad thing?

    The only thing I would say is that I don't start threads on a football message boards and the VAST majority of threads on here are started by people of right wing views. I would suggest that you don't take issue with them, even though they bring the threads into existence and some of them post lots more than I do, simply because you are in agreement with their views and don't like opposition to them?
    Last edited by ragingpup; 15-06-2019 at 07:46 AM.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    What do you mean by 'Activist'? I go to some Labour Party meetings, went to a momentum meeting back in 2017 but it wasn't for me, and attended a Hope Not Hate meeting a couple of weeks ago to look at ways we could counter race/religious hate crimes in our local community. If you define 'activists as someone who campaigns to bring about social/political change' then I guess I am. But isn't anyone who argues with others about politics/social issues, attends meetings, writes letters to papers/council/anyone is the same? And why is that a bad thing?

    The only thing I would say is that I don't start threads on a football message boards and the VAST majority of threads on here are started by people of right wing views. I would suggest that you don't take issue with them, even though they bring the threads into existence and some of them post lots more than I do, simply because you are in agreement with their views and don't like opposition to them?
    Must admit raging, I'm sick to death of reading posts started by Kerr

  5. #405
    Quote Originally Posted by Exiletyke View Post
    Must admit raging, I'm sick to death of reading posts started by Kerr
    But reading them is easier than trawling to find the original sources on the internet.

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    What do you mean by 'Activist'? I go to some Labour Party meetings, went to a momentum meeting back in 2017 but it wasn't for me, and attended a Hope Not Hate meeting a couple of weeks ago to look at ways we could counter race/religious hate crimes in our local community. If you define 'activists as someone who campaigns to bring about social/political change' then I guess I am. But isn't anyone who argues with others about politics/social issues, attends meetings, writes letters to papers/council/anyone is the same? And why is that a bad thing?

    The only thing I would say is that I don't start threads on a football message boards and the VAST majority of threads on here are started by people of right wing views. I would suggest that you don't take issue with them, even though they bring the threads into existence and some of them post lots more than I do, simply because you are in agreement with their views and don't like opposition to them?
    So itís fair to say you are an activist then? Thought so.

    I actually donít take issue with the extreme right wing views because thereís no point. Too stupid, the lot of them. You have no idea what I agree with and what I donít. All you know is that Iíve never voted Tory.

    Unfortunately your party canít add up or have the entrepreneurial skills to feed the masses. Unfortunately all politicians are too scared to take on the establishment and deal with the rich landowners and aristocracy in this country.


    Iíve read a few of your posts. I think youíre part of an Ďarmyí who have forgotten what democracy is.

    Whether you are right or wrong with your views, the damage MPís and the Ďremainí movement are doing to this country is unprecedented.

    Channel your energy into respecting a democratic vote and you might get some respect.

    Start a rejoin movement if you like but honour the vote FFS.

    Dress it up how you want but at the end of the day we had a vote.

    Do we dare to believe, itís the only vote ever, where politicians lied to us to get power or their way?

    Give me a break.

  7. #407
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    Have you noticed how all the people fighting against "hate" are full of hate?

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiletyke View Post
    Must admit raging, I'm sick to death of reading posts started by Kerr
    I don't start posts, Zyles. I just seem to become the subject of a lot of them.

  9. #409
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    Yes I know, but I have often wondered why

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydoo View Post
    So it’s fair to say you are an activist then? Thought so.

    I actually don’t take issue with the extreme right wing views because there’s no point. Too stupid, the lot of them. You have no idea what I agree with and what I don’t. All you know is that I’ve never voted Tory.

    Unfortunately your party can’t add up or have the entrepreneurial skills to feed the masses. Unfortunately all politicians are too scared to take on the establishment and deal with the rich landowners and aristocracy in this country.


    I’ve read a few of your posts. I think you’re part of an ‘army’ who have forgotten what democracy is.

    Whether you are right or wrong with your views, the damage MP’s and the ‘remain’ movement are doing to this country is unprecedented.

    Channel your energy into respecting a democratic vote and you might get some respect.

    Start a rejoin movement if you like but honour the vote FFS.

    Dress it up how you want but at the end of the day we had a vote.

    Do we dare to believe, it’s the only vote ever, where politicians lied to us to get power or their way?

    Give me a break.
    Sorry? Are you under the impression that I am arguing for Remain? Why are you saying this?

  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by great_fire View Post
    Have you noticed how all the people fighting against "hate" are full of hate?
    I don't think it's that Fire. I think it's a kind of human empathy with the 100,000 people in our country who are attacked/abused because of the race/religion/gender/disability. These are just the recorded ones. And then a further 10,500 hate crimes (mainly race/religious) have been recorded on under 16 year olds at school. On children, by children.

    I personally don't feel hate but it makes me angry. But why don't these stats make everyone angry?
    Last edited by ragingpup; 15-06-2019 at 03:42 PM.

  12. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Sorry? Are you under the impression that I am arguing for Remain? Why are you saying this?
    Must say raging if you're not arguing for remain [which is your right] you certainly do a bad job of hiding it
    As for howdy's comment "You have no idea what I agree with and what I don’t. All you know is that I’ve never voted Tory."
    We all gather impressions of others by what they post thus what they do & don't agree with
    All we know is that you have told us [raging] that you have never voted Tory but that's what you have told us so we don't really know

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exiletyke View Post
    Must say raging if you're not arguing for remain [which is your right] you certainly do a bad job of hiding it
    As for howdy's comment "You have no idea what I agree with and what I don’t. All you know is that I’ve never voted Tory."
    We all gather impressions of others by what they post thus what they do & don't agree with
    All we know is that you have told us [raging] that you have never voted Tory but that's what you have told us so we don't really know
    If you look back through the years of the Brexit thread you will not find me once arguing that we should remain. I have always felt we should respect the referendum that we should leave. The only argument is how we should leave. However, there have been many discussions of the merits of the EU vs Leaving with Deal v Leaving with No deal and in those arguments I have of course argued (as a person that voted Remain) that of course I think we are economically much better in the EU. But that's another argument entirely from whether we should actually Leave.

    My dilemma now is what to do as we see No Dealers attempt to hijack the referendum for their own ends. We should leave, but we should leave with a deal, however long it takes and by whatever means it takes to get one. Unfortunately many No deal advocates are like kids waiting for Xmas - "want it ALL and NOW!"

    If we proceed towards No Deal then I can't stand and watch. The majority of the country did not vote for No deal. It is an undemocratic outcome. Maybe that's where Howdy is confused?

    But to be clear, I think we should keep working towards a Deal that gets through parliament, however long that takes.

  14. #414
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    Not confused at all.

    Brexit means exit. Simples. All the complex arguments should have been debated before the vote. Now it just looks like sour grapes

    All this Noel Edmunds nonsense is just the vehicle being used to try and keep us in.

    We voted out. Thstís it. The world will not end if we come out with no deal. Too many people running scared. Nor do they have any intention of accepting anything until they get their way.

    How about rolling your sleeves up, take this one on the chin and just get on with it?

    Three years wasted and counting.

    Itís pathetic.

  15. #415
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    Going back to the original posts on here about Corbyn, and this is where I take issue with the likes of Kerr. Does anyone on this board seriously believe that if Labour got in power next election even with a landslide majority, we would have some sort of stalinist state in the UK. It just wouldn't happen even if Corbyn wanted this which is equally nonsensical. Its just scaremongering and character assassination from the usual suspects in the gutter press. Some of his critics on here may very well be pleasantly surprised (even you Mr Kerr). Lets put it this way, I would rather take a gamble on Corbyn than Boris/ Farage etc.
    Last edited by rolymiller; 16-06-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by howdydoo View Post
    Not confused at all.

    Brexit means exit. Simples. All the complex arguments should have been debated before the vote. Now it just looks like sour grapes

    All this Noel Edmunds nonsense is just the vehicle being used to try and keep us in.

    We voted out. Thstís it. The world will not end if we come out with no deal. Too many people running scared. Nor do they have any intention of accepting anything until they get their way.

    How about rolling your sleeves up, take this one on the chin and just get on with it?

    Three years wasted and counting.

    Itís pathetic.
    Sorry mate. You're not having it all your own way. I'll continue to support the Leave vote as long as the outcome is satisfactory and represents the wishes of the democratic majority of the country.

    We could and should have been clearer with the vote stating that we will leave the EU on wto terms so that the vote was clear.

    The o boy problem is that if it had been framed in this way, the vote would have been majority for remain, probably by over 65%. We could do this now, but you know as well as I do that if framed that way, the majority would be clearly for remain. And you would lose brexit altogether.

    So we need a compromise that will speak for the majority of were going to move forward. I hope that parliament can find that with amendments to the agreed deal. But you will have to compromise some also on no deal because it isn't the democratic will and Parliament knows this. A reminder, the WA IS leaving the EU once the backdrop is solved. I'm sorry that so many of you don't like those terms but it is a compromise, one that I don't like, sticks in the craw, but it's better than no deal or revoke in my opinion. That may take many years (to solve the backstop) but I agree with Kerr that the WA is not a great deal for the EU either, and I think they will move to allow the WA to complete ASAP.

  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by rolymiller View Post
    Going back to the original posts on here about Corbyn, and this is where I take issue with the likes of Kerr. Does anyone on this board seriously believe that if Labour got in power next election even with a landslide majority, we would have some sort of stalinist state in the UK. It just wouldn't happen even if Corbyn wanted this which is equally nonsensical. Its just scaremongering and character assassination from the usual suspects in the gutter press. Some of his critics on here may very well be pleasantly surprised (even you Mr Kerr). Lets put it this way, I would rather take a gamble on Corbyn than Boris/ Farage etc.
    No, I don't think we would end up with a Stalinist state. I think that we would end up with mounting unemployment as capital fled punitive tax rates and resurgence in TU militancy that made the UK a bad place to do business and employ people. I also think that you would see falling numbers of people being able to go into higher education, as the government failed to replace tuition fee funding on a pound for pound basis, because it couldn’t afford to. I think you would see rising inflation destroying the value of people's savings and pensions as a consequence of a collapse in confidence in the pound as traders feared that a Corbyn led government would eventually do what all Socialist governments do in the end - print money and impose capital controls to try to stop it leaving the country.

    It's not scaremongering - it's the lesson of history.

    What do you think you would get? Bland soundbites about 'the many and not the few'?

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by ragingpup View Post
    Sorry mate. You're not having it all your own way. I'll continue to support the Leave vote as long as the outcome is satisfactory and represents the wishes of the democratic majority of the country.

    We could and should have been clearer with the vote stating that we will leave the EU on wto terms so that the vote was clear.

    The o boy problem is that if it had been framed in this way, the vote would have been majority for remain, probably by over 65%. We could do this now, but you know as well as I do that if framed that way, the majority would be clearly for remain. And you would lose brexit altogether.

    So we need a compromise that will speak for the majority of were going to move forward. I hope that parliament can find that with amendments to the agreed deal. But you will have to compromise some also on no deal because it isn't the democratic will and Parliament knows this. A reminder, the WA IS leaving the EU once the backdrop is solved. I'm sorry that so many of you don't like those terms but it is a compromise, one that I don't like, sticks in the craw, but it's better than no deal or revoke in my opinion. That may take many years (to solve the backstop) but I agree with Kerr that the WA is not a great deal for the EU either, and I think they will move to allow the WA to complete ASAP.
    Is the 65% figure a product of your imagination, or is there science behind it?

    The EU has been clear that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened. Whether that might happen if a new PM wisely puts no deal back on the table, I don't know, but I wouldn't bet on it. Labour spent weeks demanding changes to the Political Declaration that they knew May could not give them and which were meaningless in any event, given that it isn’t a binding document.

    As for ‘however long it takes’ , we have until 31st October for certain, after that you will be in the hands of an increasingly frustrated and impatient group of 27 countries, with a fair chance that France, Belgium and Spain will say ‘no’.

    My guess is that you will see the EU agreeing to amend the Political Declaration to put a time limit on the backstop, provide that there is a clear indication that would get the WA through Parliament.

  19. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerrAvon View Post
    Is the 65% figure a product of your imagination, or is there science behind it?

    The EU has been clear that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened. Whether that might happen if a new PM wisely puts no deal back on the table, I don't know, but I wouldn't bet on it. Labour spent weeks demanding changes to the Political Declaration that they knew May could not give them and which were meaningless in any event, given that it isn’t a binding document.

    As for ‘however long it takes’ , we have until 31st October for certain, after that you will be in the hands of an increasingly frustrated and impatient group of 27 countries, with a fair chance that France, Belgium and Spain will say ‘no’.

    My guess is that you will see the EU agreeing to amend the Political Declaration to put a time limit on the backstop, provide that there is a clear indication that would get the WA through Parliament.
    The 65% is arrived at as all polling suggests that we're split pretty evenly between no deal, revoke and in between.

    I don't think the attempted negotiations were a waste of time as it was a good faith attempt to unlock the situation.

    Your end scenario is a likely outcome. As you know from previous posts, I'm far from happy about it but compromise is the only way to avoid the extremes

  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grist_To_The_Mill View Post
    But reading them is easier than trawling to find the original sources on the internet.
    I like how you're complementary without even realising it, like in your mind the content is such high quality it *must* have been taken from elsewhere otherwise why would you suggest it's not original. Every time you accuse someone of copy and pasting when to everyone else it's obviously just something they've written I read it as an accidental complement and smile.

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