O/T Jeremy corbyn

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

There's little chance of strike action on the scale you mentioned. A large part of the workforce isn't in a Union.

Amazon wouldn't find it difficult to find new labour from the large numbers of eastern europeans in the area.

[animallittle3]

There's little chance of strike action on the scale you mentioned. A large part of the workforce isn't in a Union.

Amazon wouldn't find it difficult to find new labour from the large numbers of eastern europeans in the area.

But my point was that they don't seek to organise themselves Grist and control their destiny if you like .

Nobody but nobody gives the working class anything unless they are prepared to grow a pair and stand up for themselves .

40 hour weeks , overtime enhancements and holiday pay were fought for by people who had far more to lose than today , you didn't work back then you would most likely starve to death .

If people aren't prepared to stand together then we have to try and create the conditions in which they can prosper which is reducing cheap labour .

That's all I'm saying Grist , just a fairer crack of the whip .

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

But my point was that they don't seek to organise themselves Grist and control their destiny if you like .

Nobody but nobody gives the working class anything unless they are prepared to grow a pair and stand up for themselves .

40 hour weeks , overtime enhancements and holiday pay were fought for by people who had far more to lose than today , you didn't work back then you would most likely starve to death .

If people aren't prepared to stand together then we have to try and create the conditions in which they can prosper which is reducing cheap labour .

That's all I'm saying Grist , just a fairer crack of the whip .

I don’t disagree with that to be honest

[WanChaiMiller]

Animal - I totally agree with you but just dont see that its down to the EU or that leaving to trade globally (Farage 'we are going global') will change anything.

I dont see house price inflation or increased utility bills (and selling off our industrial base that Big Lad discribes) as down to the EU. This is more a consequence of Thatcher neoliberal policy through the 80s.

Low wage is a result of low productivity growth. Its been traditionally poor in the UK but almost flat lined since 2007. 10 years year of vitually zero wage inceases. It a fault of poor long term investment strategy rather than the EU.

In that time house price continued to rise.* The gap between income and cost of housing widened - vitually impossible to pull back.* Also the credit crunch makes it harder to secure morgages.* Its too easy to blame low wages on immigrants. But there are more fundemental problems at work.

Are you thinking that if we stop immigration it will lead to labour shortages will drive up wages? You use Amazon as an example. The problem we face is that 42% of retailers on the high street are in serious financial trouble. They are looking to shed staff rather than increase wages.

Eastern Europeans are being exploited. The basic concept of free movement is brilliant (allows us incredible freedoms). The problem is large companies use it to exploit workers. They use agenies to recruit in their home countries. Ive heard of workers living 4 to a room in flats rented by these agencies. I see the same in the Middle East and Hong Kong. Workers brought in from low cost base countries to work in high cost economies for low wages.

Selling off council houses had its initial benefits but long term drawbacks. Lack of house building programme led to a shortage of supply that drove house inflation. 60% of former council homes are with private landlords. I think the decision to sell off council houses changed the face and cost of UK housing forever.

In my view Thatcher should have used North Sea Oil revenue to reinvest in our industrial base rather than close it down and use the money to pay redundancies and dole money. Instead she throw our industrial base and ulities to the wolves by ushering in an era neoliberilism. It killed off cities like Liverpool and Sheffield. It took 20 odd years to revamp these cities but the key thing is its built around services and not industry. That why so many are in low wages.

We're not a basket case. Despite what big lad say (the EU are bleeding us dry and only there for the benefit of Germany and France) we are the 5th biggest economy with good growth through much of the period since we signed up to Maastricht in 1992 up to the credit crunch (2007).

[BigLadonOS]

Look guys its like this.

Once we are out of the EU and we can run our country as we would like it means that every party vying to run the country would have to build a manifesto that represents how they would like the country run and with no input at all from EU law.

This is where things would have to change. Cheap imported labour would be a thing of the past, companies would have to abide by the laws of the UK not the laws of the EU.

Do not think for one second that any party would not want to be in charge of our country just because we left the EU. All they would do is change from what they think is best as part of the EU to what they think is best for the UK and only the UK.

I'm sorry but I cannot see any party backing cheap labour and low taxes for business that bring nothing but hardship to the UK or they wont last very long as the ruling party of this country.

Policies would change dramatically on all sides, it would have to implement policies that only represent the UK. If you think that is a bad thing then so be it.

[EasyAndEarly]

And skills shortages when the tories have priced training / degrees out of the range of many and even then debt for life.

Train our kids - provide incentives for skill needs.

The skills shortages are a direct fault of tory policy. Untill we all live in places like Page Hall and Eastwood - virtually no go areas can people think open borders are a good idea. Live there for a week and those that want freedom of movement will change their mind.

May calling for a reduction in college fees shows how weak the tories are. Labour is suffering from the media propaganda machine that is dragging Labour down as well. The difference is the tories have earned there position but Labours position is only media / headline speak. The young arn't that gullible and will see straight through the media via social media sources. Like Boris's £350 million court case was a political red herring - the antisemitic smokescreen is driven from the right wing of politics. All a slur campaign to level the playing field and take the spotlight from the tory shambles.....BBC / Question time shown for what it is.....a great big propaganda machine.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The north voted overwhelmingly for brexit.

The Labour heartland is the north.

It makes no sense for Labour to side with remain.

Votes are draining away from them.

[ragingpup]

The north voted overwhelmingly for brexit.

The Labour heartland is the north.

It makes no sense for Labour to side with remain.

Votes are draining away from them.

But as the FullFact article says, for every 1 labour voter lost to the BP, we are losing 3 to Lib Dems/Greens. Votes are indeed draining away from us.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

But as the FullFact article says, for every 1 labour voter lost to the BP, we are losing 3 to Lib Dems/Greens. Votes are indeed draining away from us.

In the long run I think most folks know that the Lib Dems and Greens are incapable of forming a credible government.

The point remains that at a time when the tories are in disarray and austerity has hit hard (disproportionately in the north) that Labour should be streets ahead in the polls.

[animallittle3]

But as the FullFact article says, for every 1 labour voter lost to the BP, we are losing 3 to Lib Dems/Greens. Votes are indeed draining away from us.

Not around Rotherham and Barnsley raging and I suspect not in the brexit heartlands .

The Labour vote went to the Brexit Party massively .