O/T Jeremy corbyn

[KerrAvon]

How are my definitions of what labour stands for self contradictory?

I took a crystal clear definition of tory (agreed with you) and Labour (you were nowhere near). You look at all the definitions from neutral, and non momentum bodies that you like. None will define them as you define them. I used the simplest definition from a simple site. Care to post another definition of labour's natural ground from a more 'grown up' neutral dictionary that concurs with your 'party of benefits' slant? Go on, try it.

I think it's quite clear to anyone that I agree with your tory definition, as that fits in with most definitions from a neutral point of view. But you rather embarrassed yourself, and are continuing to dig yourself further with your squirming, by defining labour in a way that a 12 year old young tory would have done. You say here, with a pride that even Alan Partridge would struggle to muster, that you "told me what I thought without consulting wikipedia". That would be great if what you thought wasn't so embarrassingly vacuous, shallow and let's be Frank desperately in need of a smidgen of objectjective research support from Wiki or anywhere. You say you haven't voted tory, and aim to keep this pompous air of neautrality, but simply can't conceal the loaded venom you have for Labour. That's all well and good, completely fine with that, but if your two definitions of the main parties is anything to go by, surely you can see why no one on here believes you?

Well it's not your definition of what Labour stands for, is it? You have been clear that you took it from a child friendly website rather than working it out for yourself. Read it again to see if you can work out why it is inaccurate and self-contradictory yourself.

I still don't get what you are getting upset about. You accept that Labour represents high tax, big government. Unless you are totally detached from reality and haven't found it on a child friendly website, you also have to accept that they are a high benefit party (call it tackling inequality if that is more palatable for you).

A natural consequence of increasing benefits is that more people will choose a life on benefits as a lifestyle. It's as simple as that.

I think the problem may be that you get confused between the truth and what you want to believe. They aren’t always the same thing.

Whether people believe me is of little concern to me.

[KerrAvon]

Def not Greens as their last manifesto was further left than Labour. As was SNP and Plaid Cymru.

Lib Dems it is then, the sneaky old Pro-Remainer :-)

I thought we had agreed that labelling people isn't helpful, but here you are doing it again.

You may need a tissue to hand for the next bit as you may find that you suffer a spontaneous nosebleed or even feel faint, but the thing is that people don't have to adopt any party as 'theirs'. It's possible to have an open mind and actually assess what politicians say without being required to join a cult and agree with everything that it says. I would not want to be a member of any party - it’s painful at times to watch you and others furiously trying to polish Corbyn's latest turd.

[ragingpup]

I thought we had agreed that labelling people isn't helpful, but here you are doing it again.

You may need a tissue to hand for the next bit as you may find that you suffer a spontaneous nosebleed or even feel faint, but the thing is that people don't have to adopt any party as 'theirs'. It's possible to have an open mind and actually assess what politicians say without being required to join a cult and agree with everything that it says. I would not want to be a member of any party - it’s painful at times to watch you and others furiously trying to polish Corbyn's latest turd.

Such superiority. I've voted for 3 parties in my voting life but I don't go around trying to be superior on it when I blatantly plug only one party. Again you are hysterical - voting for a the same party = "a cult". Is GM a member of "a cult"? Hyperbole of which IBS would be proud when he goes off on one about lesboes.

Poish Corbyn's turd? Explain what you mean? I think I have been critical of some Corbyn's stances? Where do you get this from (I know you won't answer - caught out again)

[KerrAvon]

Oh come on, raging. It wasn't so long ago that you were on here gurgling away about how people were chanting your Great Leader's name in Grime Clubs (you are clearly down with kids for a 52 year old), whilst animal was explaining that Corbs was 'cool'.

The 2018 council elections and the calamity that was Jezz Fest may have brought you down to earth a bit, but you were a fully paid up member of the Corbyn cult.

Polishing turds: following every line fed to you about antisemitism within your party, support for ideologically driven nationalisation, and job destroying corporate tax rates, the seizure of 10% of every decent sized public company. Let's be honest, if Corbyn decided to decimalise time, with hundred hour minutes, ten hour days and ten day weeks, you'd be on here cooing away about how it was a brilliant idea.

[KerrAvon]

I should also have mentioned Labour's six tests for a Brexit deal - unrealistic and self-contradictory, but adopted mantra style by members of the Corbyn cult.

[ragingpup]

Oh come on, raging. It wasn't so long ago that you were on here gurgling away about how people were chanting your Great Leader's name in Grime Clubs (you are clearly down with kids for a 52 year old), whilst animal was explaining that Corbs was 'cool'.

The 2018 council elections and the calamity that was Jezz Fest may have brought you down to earth a bit, but you were a fully paid up member of the Corbyn cult.

Polishing turds: following every line fed to you about antisemitism within your party, support for ideologically driven nationalisation, and job destroying corporate tax rates, the seizure of 10% of every decent sized public company. Let's be honest, if Corbyn decided to decimalise time, with hundred hour minutes, ten hour days and ten day weeks, you'd be on here cooing away about how it was a brilliant idea.

I would say that many of us are very grateful to Corbyn for winning the party back to more left wing values, even if policy wise they are still quite centrist. Sensibly so. Many of us are still very much behind the policy ideas that the party have evolved and will argue for them, whilst being critical of what we feel is not a good direction. Yes iwas pleased to see lots of young people become engaged with Labour policies. Their policies on Brexit have pissed off many of them for not supporting remain though. I know that you disagree with these policies ideologically but to call people who take part in their evolution and argue for them 'cultists' is somewhat hysterical. I'm sure you've seen my posts wishing that Corbyn will soon pass the baton but it doesn't suit your agenda to acknowledge that. Blinkered you see.

Now sir. I have seen many arguments from yourself promoting all of the last and current Conservative policies including their brexit stance. I don't recall one point where you have deviated from their policies in any single way. So by the same token, can we not say that you are not only a Conservative supporter but also, by your diminished thinking ability, part of their 'cult' also? Happy to retract this if you can point to any policies where you and the 2010+ tories disagree and you have argued so on here.

I'm sure readers on here can still fondly recall your demand that I lost "just one" Conservative policy that you have supported. I provided one. You said "OK, give another". I gave you a list. Very funny, but also but sad that you were so heart felt when you said it.

I would think that many neutral observers on here would just say that Kerr is of the Conservative party as I am the Labour Party despite your continued quite funny pleas of sophistication...

[howdydoo]

He has already stated that he has never voted Tory.

What's your issue with that? Ditto. I support more policies on the right of centre than left but I've never voted Tory either. As much as I hate this Jeremy Kyle society we live in, I hate the filthy rich tax avoiders and 'illuminati' even more.

What's so hard for you to understand, when a bloke is analytical and concludes, in his opinion, your politics don't work. It's pretty clear you are an activist and truly believe you know best.

Do something better with your time. The amount of time it takes you to paste, research, then cut and paste on here every week, would be better served with a part time voluntary job. Go and do your bit.

'Blinkered you see'

Any neutral observer on here, would say you post too much and most definitely have an agenda.

[howdydoo]

A bit of cut and paste of my own. something I stumbled on a couple of weeks ago. The sentiments are about right.

On Thursday night, Nigel Farage’s Brexit party will comfortably win more votes than the Labour and Conservative parties put together. This is the price we will pay as a country – and a political system – for the failure to deliver on the public’s vote to leave the EU in June 2016.

The European elections will represent a second people’s vote and an undeniable rejection of Remainer politics. Surprise is the very last reaction that is warranted. Over the past three years, there has been scant interest from the Remain camp in listening or reflecting on why they lost the referendum, let alone an attempt at persuading and winning round voters who backed Brexit.

For nearly three years, their actions have been condescending, tone deaf, incompetent and foolish. They resemble British tourists in a Spanish hotel in the 1970s shouting louder at the waiter in order to be understood.

British politics has changed, but there are those who still cling to the old certainties. No amount of sophistry about messages on buses or Russian interference has had any effect. Voters are wise to the tactics of the political class. When they hear Remainer politicians talk of a second referendum they simply hear, ‘We’re giving you another chance to give us the right answer.’

Am I a Leaver? No, I’m a democrat. When you’ve lost, you’ve lost. Accept it, learn from it and come back stronger. I’m also a rejoiner. I want Britain’s long-term interest to be served by being part of the European Union. I simply recognise that the short-term position is now lost.

A second referendum, or ‘confirmatory ballot’ – the latest euphemism for a re-run – will return the same result, only this time, the EU will be killed off as a cause in British politics for good.

There has been no sea change in public opinion. Again, I refer you to the phenomenon of the Brexit party. The energy and sense of purpose is lopsided towards Leavers, galvanised by the whiff of betrayal that hangs in the air. ‘The best lack all conviction,’ as WB Yeats put it, ‘while the worst are full of passionate intensity.’

I’m not sure I would go as far as to split Brexit camps into ‘best’ and ‘worst.’ There are decent people across the is messy divide. But only one side won the referendum. Remainers who have consistently rejecting this basic, immutable fact have turbo-charged the Brexit party.

As many have already noted, Farage’s key message this time around is a complaint that that the first result is being ignored. It channels the sense of unfairness – of not playing by the rules – that so many voters instinctively recognise and bristle at. He doesn’t even need to mention immigration, or ‘taking back control.’ It’s enough to castigate the political class for welching on a deal.

Pro-Europeans need to accept defeat, fall back, regroup, assess what has happened, develop a better strategy and come back stronger. To become ‘rejoiners.’ To secure the long term, we need to sacrifice the short term in order to prevail in the medium term.

The decade between 1962 and 1972 saw Britain twice rebuffed from joining the then Common Market before Ted Heath took us in. My prediction is that between 2016 and 2026, we will have voted to leave, left, voted to go back in again and, hopefully, put this issue to bed once and for all.

There isn’t really any alternative approach for pro-Europeans. The only way of binding the gaping wound in British politics is to come back to first principles. Leavers won the referendum and expect to see their decision enacted.

It is reckless and unwise to pretend otherwise.

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Interesting to read the BBC coverage of the Hong Kong riots, their opinion appears to be on the side of the protestors not wanting mainline China to have a legal say of what happens in HK.

This is the same BBC that thinks it’s acceptable for us to stay in the EU and be increasingly influenced by the EU courts and legal system.

[Exiletyke]

Interesting to read the BBC coverage of the Hong Kong riots, their opinion appears to be on the side of the protestors not wanting mainline China to have a legal say of what happens in HK.

This is the same BBC that thinks it’s acceptable for us to stay in the EU and be increasingly influenced by the EU courts and legal system.

I don't think the BBC get any funding from the Chinese Gov't