Reply With QuoteI haven't voted Labour since he became leader.
Hall Of Fame
They are looking away from here because they can pay skilled workers a pittance compared to the UK , it's that simple .Originally Posted by WanChaiMiller
This is my point about globalisation killing the working class .
The costs of production will fall but will you see the price of a new Honda fall in the UK , no you won't , that reduction in cost will benefit the boardroom and nobody else .
Can't you see the game here that's played out ? , the distribution of wealth , more for those at the top whilst skilled workers are left to work in another Amazon DC .
Hall Of Fame
I haven't voted Labour since he became leader.
Hall Of Fame
I can see exactly what you are saying (and will still answer the question you posed on the other thread).
I just dont see how leaving the EU changes the underlaying situation you describe.
Hall Of Fame
Because freedom of movement is complicit in creating the Amazons of this world coming here and paying buttons an hour .
At least if Toyota and Honda take their production elsewhere which you can't stop then the Amazons coming in to replace these skilled jobs don't have the benefits of a huge cheap labour market .
So the price of that labour increases and is relatively comparable with the jobs we've lost .
At the end of the day I don't care who makes what or who comes here but what I do care about is the distribution of wealth and the working class getting a fair slice of it .
This isn't about me this is about my grandkids and their ability to work and prosper and have the opportunities previous generations were able to obtain .
I was able to purchase a house relatively comfortably on a living wage back in the day , have savings , go on holiday , go out at the weekend .
Unthinkable for my 18 year old step daughter and her partner , we have to fill in their financial gaps just to keep a roof over their heads and pay the bills , they don't go out , don't have a car and never had a holiday together and obviously have no savings .
This is the scenario for millions of young people today .
An extra three or four quid an hour gives them the shot my generation had .
Hall Of Fame
Stop talking sense animal you know it will only fall on deaf ears.
Hall Of Fame
I do get frustrated too with the younger working class because they fail to see the benefits of organising themselves to fight collectively just as our grandparents did , nobody was giving them owt either back then , that soon changed when they realised it was themselves who held the power .
See how Amazon cope with their workforce on strike for a week and unable to service their customers , HGV drivers turning round and not supplying the fulfillment centres with stock .
They'd be on their @ss in a week , take that globally too if you want , I can do globalisation too when it suits .
Feckers would be paying a living wage quick sticks or they die on the spot .
They'd shyte themselves for ever more after that and be more than aware that they have to play ball with the workforce or else .
Hall Of Fame
There's little chance of strike action on the scale you mentioned. A large part of the workforce isn't in a Union.
Amazon wouldn't find it difficult to find new labour from the large numbers of eastern europeans in the area.
Hall Of Fame
But my point was that they don't seek to organise themselves Grist and control their destiny if you like .
Nobody but nobody gives the working class anything unless they are prepared to grow a pair and stand up for themselves .
40 hour weeks , overtime enhancements and holiday pay were fought for by people who had far more to lose than today , you didn't work back then you would most likely starve to death .
If people aren't prepared to stand together then we have to try and create the conditions in which they can prosper which is reducing cheap labour .
That's all I'm saying Grist , just a fairer crack of the whip .
Hall Of Fame
Animal - I totally agree with you but just dont see that its down to the EU or that leaving to trade globally (Farage 'we are going global') will change anything.
I dont see house price inflation or increased utility bills (and selling off our industrial base that Big Lad discribes) as down to the EU. This is more a consequence of Thatcher neoliberal policy through the 80s.
Low wage is a result of low productivity growth. Its been traditionally poor in the UK but almost flat lined since 2007. 10 years year of vitually zero wage inceases. It a fault of poor long term investment strategy rather than the EU.
In that time house price continued to rise.* The gap between income and cost of housing widened - vitually impossible to pull back.* Also the credit crunch makes it harder to secure morgages.* Its too easy to blame low wages on immigrants. But there are more fundemental problems at work.
Are you thinking that if we stop immigration it will lead to labour shortages will drive up wages? You use Amazon as an example. The problem we face is that 42% of retailers on the high street are in serious financial trouble. They are looking to shed staff rather than increase wages.
Eastern Europeans are being exploited. The basic concept of free movement is brilliant (allows us incredible freedoms). The problem is large companies use it to exploit workers. They use agenies to recruit in their home countries. Ive heard of workers living 4 to a room in flats rented by these agencies. I see the same in the Middle East and Hong Kong. Workers brought in from low cost base countries to work in high cost economies for low wages.
Selling off council houses had its initial benefits but long term drawbacks. Lack of house building programme led to a shortage of supply that drove house inflation. 60% of former council homes are with private landlords. I think the decision to sell off council houses changed the face and cost of UK housing forever.
In my view Thatcher should have used North Sea Oil revenue to reinvest in our industrial base rather than close it down and use the money to pay redundancies and dole money. Instead she throw our industrial base and ulities to the wolves by ushering in an era neoliberilism. It killed off cities like Liverpool and Sheffield. It took 20 odd years to revamp these cities but the key thing is its built around services and not industry. That why so many are in low wages.
We're not a basket case. Despite what big lad say (the EU are bleeding us dry and only there for the benefit of Germany and France) we are the 5th biggest economy with good growth through much of the period since we signed up to Maastricht in 1992 up to the credit crunch (2007).
Hall Of Fame
I don’t disagree with that to be honest
Posting Permissions