Fitbas F@cked

[donsdaft]

I love European football, well when the Dons are in it especially.

No time for the modern tournaments though.

The romance of the cup, the luck of the draw etc. etc.

[The_Moog]

But they are trying to make changes now to be implemented in 2024 that will ensure qualification for the Chumps League for the same 24 teams from the five 'top' leagues ensuring that even if, for example, Chelsea finished in the bottom half of their domestic league they will still qualify for this racket.

They're speaking about a Europa League 2 thus making a Europa League 1 effectively a Chumps League 2. Therefore, creating a pool of around the Top 50 teams in Europe with most coming from the five (English, German, Spanish, Italian and French) but the others made up from the big fishes in the smaller leagues, possibly including Tweedle Dee and maybe Tweedle Dum.

We saw what happened to the English FA Cup when it was devalued by Manchester United by the World Club Championship. I think there's every chance, if this format is approved, it will create a two tier European Super League with domestic leagues including those in the top 5 leagues becoming reduced and eventually reshaped to something unrecognisable to us today.

I'm convinced these changes will be the death of international football.

Yep, that's the next step - guaranteed qualification regardless of league placings. I can easy see that happening for 2024. The Europa League 2 stuff is just crumbs from the table to get the diddies to buy in. We probably will too as that's what we do.

What I was talking about was the full breakaway, where these teams no longer compete in their domestic competitions at all (unless the colt team abortion gets the nod of course). That will be the next step after 2024. The Nigels aren't too worried about that just now because their domestic TV deal is so obscene, but the Spanish, Germans, Italians are gagging for it.

I'd welcome it if they all f'ucked off and played with themselves personally as I've no interest in it, wont pay for it & it wont make an ounce of difference to me, but if it dragged the uglies away and left us alone it'd be great.

Imagine a Scottish league that could conceivably be won by at least 4 or 5 teams every year. Meaningful matches all the time. As deacon said, I also could not really care about the quality if it was competitive, meaningful and we actually had a chance of winning something. I bet crowds would go up too. Hibs, Hearts & Dundee Utd (not so much just now haha) have all had bigger crowds in the championship when they were winning than they got in the top league for making up the numbers. Fabulous.

I also think international football will be fine, but only because its the cash cow that keeps the FIFA gravy train rolling. They dont get much if anything from the Champions League - the World Cups where its at for them & that needs international football so as long as that's the case no way will FIFA let that slide.

[redstarfk]

The bigger clubs (Huns and Hooped Huns in particular) wanted more money as they saw Europe as the place to be competing in. Other clubs (us, Hearts, Hibs, Dundee, United) tagged along thinking only of themselves and the promised land of keeping all your gate money to yourself. Bad move. They also decided to go for a top 10 - more meaningful games (translated - more money for us playing 4 home games each season against the Old Firm and keeping all the money). What happened was that they created a duoply where the Cheeks had access to much more resources than anyone else and so won all the trophies

My recollection is that our board in the mid-70’s didn’t merely tag along with the Ugly Sisters about setting up the 10 team Premier League and the home team keeping the gate money. I’m pretty sure that Chris Anderson in particular was very much a driving force behind these changes. Or at least he was happy to give that impression several years later when it had all panned out better for us than anyone could ever have dreamt.

[deaconred]

My recollection is that our board in the mid-70’s didn’t merely tag along with the Ugly Sisters about setting up the 10 team Premier League and the home team keeping the gate money. I’m pretty sure that Chris Anderson in particular was very much a driving force behind these changes. Or at least he was happy to give that impression several years later when it had all panned out better for us than anyone could ever have dreamt.

I'd agree with that. Chris Anderson has been categorised and labelled as a visionary. I think it was very short-sighted vision he had. We and a few others were like the fat lassies hanging out with the blonde babe in the hope of a quickie.

[NaeMairNeeps]

Ah dinna get the fascination wi competitions involvin clubs Ah dinna gie a fυck aboot ... Like 57 ... ither than the Keith connection, My interest lies wi a team that means somethin tae me beyond results and limelight.

OK, Ah hae a 'soft' spot for a few teams ... all Scottish .... cos well ... Ah follow Scottish fitba, but fae the time Ah decided, in primary School, in a class awash wi Aberdonian huns an' Tims, that Ah wis mair interested in Bobby Clark, Martin Buchan an' King Joey .... til the time Ah first walked intae Pittodrie tae see the Dons gub Man U. ... The Dons were already a part o' me, and me a part o' AFC ... and as bad as it gets, there's nae known cure ... but when it's good ... it's fυckin amazin!

Ah've nae affinity wi any ither club in the entire universe. Liverpool? Man U? Real? Barca? .... irrelevant ... tumbleweed ... shiτe that ither folk spik aboot as if it's interestin.

As Ah've said, I actually enjoy the League cup group stages ... even though we're nae in it .... far mair than European club fitba ... cos at least it has some vestige o' meanin/connection wi regards tae the game/league MY club plays in ... til we're knocked oot of course ... but Ah live in hope.

Leagues and competitions nae involvin 'the once michty'? ... as far as my interest goes, they might as well be eggchasers or golfers .. dinna even care tae find oot which ... if either

[Red Zone]

The closed shop Euro super league cant happen quick enough

Get these rich teams to f@ck

In the last week we have seen Eden Hazard go to Really Madrid for circa 80m. He had a year left on his deal at Chelsea. Mental. We have seen Manchester United offer 60m for some Crystal Palace player who is in his first season. We have also seen Manchester United offer David De Gea 20m of a potential 60m they will receive from PSG (I think its them) to force him to go and prevent him walking for free in a year

Its beyond a joke now.

Get all these super rich clubs to f@ck and let them play in their w@nker league while the rest of Europes diddies rejoice and get on with normal real fitba.

Completely agree. Everything is set up so that money goes to money and it is just making it even harder than it has ever been to break the dominance of the rich clubs. It's not just in Europe that it is just so boringly predictable (with the very odd exception of an Ajax) but the European money is ruining the competitiveness of domestic leagues as well. I know that over the years in most countries the league was won by a few dominant teams but there were periods that an Aberdeen or a Twente could break through and upset the richer clubs, not any more.

Having way too much time on my hands here is a list of the top 20 countries (so who get the lions share of European money) and recent league champions and how dominated it has been by in the main those teams that consistently play in the Champions League

Spain - Barcelona/Real (14 out of last 15 league titles)
England - MC/MU/Chelsea (14 out of last 15)
Italy - Juventus (last 8 titles)
Germany - Bayern (last 7 titles)
France - PSG (6 out of last 7)
Russia - Zenit/CSKA (7 out of last 9)
Portugal - Benfica/Porto (last 17 titles between them)
Ukraine - Shakhtar (8 out of last 10)
Belgium - the one exception - 4 different league winners in last 5 seasons - is there nothing Belgium doesn't do well in football?
Turkey - Galatasaray/Besiktas (7 out of last 8)
Austria - Salzburg (last 8)
Czech Rep - Viktoria Pilzn (5 out of last 8)
Switserland - Berne/Young Boys (last 10 between them)
Holland - Ajax/PSV (8 out of last 9)
Greece - Olympiakos (12 out of last 15)
Denmark - Copenhagen (9 out of last 14)
Croatia - Dynamo Zagreb (13 out of last 14)
Cyprus - APOEL (last 7)
Serbia - Partizan/Red Star (last 20 between them)
Scotland - celtic (last 8)

I realise that rich owners features in there somewhere but the dominant feature is the vicious circle of winning the league = champions league money = buying better players = winning the league etc etc forever more

So I am definitely in favour of some sort of closed shop European league where the top clubs bugger off taking most of the European TV money with them. That levels the playing field in what is left of European competition as there is less money left for everyone else plus the perennial winners are gone and it levels the playing field in the domestic league as teams like celtic can't dominate with European money that dwarfs domestic TV money.

2024 can't come soon enough. Bring it on.

[deaconred]

Completely agree. Everything is set up so that money goes to money and it is just making it even harder than it has ever been to break the dominance of the rich clubs. It's not just in Europe that it is just so boringly predictable (with the very odd exception of an Ajax) but the European money is ruining the competitiveness of domestic leagues as well. I know that over the years in most countries the league was won by a few dominant teams but there were periods that an Aberdeen or a Twente could break through and upset the richer clubs, not any more.

Having way too much time on my hands here is a list of the top 20 countries (so who get the lions share of European money) and recent league champions and how dominated it has been by in the main those teams that consistently play in the Champions League

Spain - Barcelona/Real (14 out of last 15 league titles)
England - MC/MU/Chelsea (14 out of last 15)
Italy - Juventus (last 8 titles)
Germany - Bayern (last 7 titles)
France - PSG (6 out of last 7)
Russia - Zenit/CSKA (7 out of last 9)
Portugal - Benfica/Porto (last 17 titles between them)
Ukraine - Shakhtar (8 out of last 10)
Belgium - the one exception - 4 different league winners in last 5 seasons - is there nothing Belgium doesn't do well in football?
Turkey - Galatasaray/Besiktas (7 out of last 8)
Austria - Salzburg (last 8)
Czech Rep - Viktoria Pilzn (5 out of last 8)
Switserland - Berne/Young Boys (last 10 between them)
Holland - Ajax/PSV (8 out of last 9)
Greece - Olympiakos (12 out of last 15)
Denmark - Copenhagen (9 out of last 14)
Croatia - Dynamo Zagreb (13 out of last 14)
Cyprus - APOEL (last 7)
Serbia - Partizan/Red Star (last 20 between them)
Scotland - celtic (last 8)

I realise that rich owners features in there somewhere but the dominant feature is the vicious circle of winning the league = champions league money = buying better players = winning the league etc etc forever more

So I am definitely in favour of some sort of closed shop European league where the top clubs bugger off taking most of the European TV money with them. That levels the playing field in what is left of European competition as there is less money left for everyone else plus the perennial winners are gone and it levels the playing field in the domestic league as teams like celtic can't dominate with European money that dwarfs domestic TV money.

2024 can't come soon enough. Bring it on.

Spot on.

[Pacman1903]

Red Zone, quality post. I did an article in TRF about it(in a way). It was the 30th anniversary of our last league win and were any other leagues as dominated by two teams type thing.

Norway is missing from your list though. Rosenborg have 20 of the last 27 including a 13 in a row.

One qualification for the CL groups can destroy a domestic league

I really hope they (spoilt rich kids) pack up and f@ck off for good. It would bring a breath of fresh air to fitba and im all for that.

[deaconred]

I think it would happen in a heartbeat - the top 20 or 40 European clubs forming a European League with maybe 2 divisions BUT for it to be a success, they need the English clubs but the English clubs are quite happy where they are. Not only are their stadiums full (with a fair number of one-off tourists spending a fortune in the club shop) but their league brings in the greatest amount of dosh and gives them a competitive advantage against the Spanish, Germans, Italians and French. This advantage really impacted in the two major European competitions this year and it'll be interesting to see the reaction if there is a prolonged period of English dominance.

[deaconred]

I think it would happen in a heartbeat - the top 20 or 40 European clubs forming a European League with maybe 2 divisions BUT for it to be a success, they need the English clubs but the English clubs are quite happy where they are. Not only are their stadiums full (with a fair number of one-off tourists spending a fortune in the club shop) but their league brings in the greatest amount of TV dosh and gives them a competitive advantage against the Spanish, Germans, Italians and French. This advantage really impacted in the two major European competitions this year and it'll be interesting to see the reaction if there is a prolonged period of English dominance.