OT: IN the end you get the PM you deserve

[BigFatPie]

Rory Stewart is a highly intelligent and capable guy who would probably make a good Prime Minister. However, as with Kenneth Clarke before him, he needs to realise that his place is not with the Conservative Party.

The reality is that after many years when politicians have used the "major parties are a broad church" explanation to align themselves and seek positions of power with either Labour or the Conservatives, the grassroots of both parties are effectively taking back control of policy making. The Labour grassroots have dictated that the Labour Party will return to its Socialist principles, while the Conservative grassroots are dictating that the party will in future be defined as a Eurosceptic/Leave party. Conservative MPs who believe that's wrong no longer belong. Tom Watson in Labour has a similar dilemma.

In other words;

“I want the Tories to be racist extremists, and I want Labour to be unelectable Marxists”.

Despite the fact that for the majority of their histories, both parties have occupied somewhere in the middle ground. Glad we’ve cleared that up.

[jackal2]

In other words;

“I want the Tories to be racist extremists, and I want Labour to be unelectable Marxists”.

Despite the fact that for the majority of their histories, both parties have occupied somewhere in the middle ground. Glad we’ve cleared that up.

Only in your own mind, BFP. You do seem compelled to categorise people who don't (completely) agree with you as "extremists".

If that's the case, then we probably have tens of millions of "extremists" in the UK these days.

[BigFatPie]

Only in your own mind, BFP. You do seem compelled to categorise people who don't (completely) agree with you as "extremists".

If that's the case, then we probably have tens of millions of "extremists" in the UK these days.

Not really Jackal, I tend to characterise extremists as extremists, and many of the people you seem to agree with deserve that tag.

I think as well that history would disagree with you if you think the Labour Party belongs to the likes of Corbyn rather than Tom Watson.

[jackal2]

Not really Jackal, I tend to characterise extremists as extremists, and many of the people you seem to agree with deserve that tag.

I'm generalising for the sake of brevity, but I'm a Eurosceptic and voted to Leave the EU; my economic policy views are broadly centre-right; and my views on social policy are generally more liberal, such as my belief in genuine freedom of speech and a basic belief that people should live and let live. If you consider that to be extreme, then I'd suggest you don't really know what extreme is.

I think as well that history would disagree with you if you think the Labour Party belongs to the likes of Corbyn rather than Tom Watson.

I'm not a Labour supporter, so the party's fortunes and its history are not really my concern. However, the fact is that the Labour party grassroots (when the party rules were changed to give them more of a say) TWICE united to elect Jeremy Corbyn as their leader by an overwhelming margin of victory, so there's little doubt where those grassroots members appear to want their party to go, and it isn't in the direction Tom Watson appears to advocate.

[Elite_Pie]

Just when you think British politics has hit a new low, it manages to go even lower. Boris has decided to hide, because he knows the only way he can lose the leadership contest now is to open his gob and show his true colours. When the other candidates are eliminated they transfer their support to Boris, not because they agree with him but because they know that rocking the boat will harm their chances of a prominent role in his first cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn is just as bad, there is still no clear position on where Labour stand on Brexit. At a time when the country needs strong and principled leadership, MPs from the main parties seem far more concerned with advancing their personal careers than they do sorting the complete shambles Brexit has become.

[bridpie78]

Just when you think British politics has hit a new low, it manages to go even lower. Boris has decided to hide, because he knows the only way he can lose the leadership contest now is to open his gob and show his true colours. When the other candidates are eliminated they transfer their support to Boris, not because they agree with him but because they know that rocking the boat will harm their chances of a prominent role in his first cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn is just as bad, there is still no clear position on where Labour stand on Brexit. At a time when the country needs strong and principled leadership, MPs from the main parties seem far more concerned with advancing their personal careers than they do sorting the complete shambles Brexit has become.

I was going to post an almost identical post, career politicians trying not to cause too many waves in a 'leadership' vote in case they lose and damage their own personal interests later, do we want a PM that puts themselves first? and JC at a time when stability and togetherness is needed is trying every trick in the book to destabilise and slip into No 10 by the back door with no real plan of what he'd do if he got there.

I was always taught that one of the main ingredients of a good leader was integrity,that quality is sorely lacking right now

[legs77]

All of them put themselves first now gone are the days of when Labour for example were for the working man.

As said above Corbyn clearly wants out of the EU but he not say that in public.

For all the people slating May it will get worse with an idiot like Boris.

Boris/Corbyn make a homeless junkie look like a GQ best dressed man of the year.

Its like picking a name out the hat as they are all useless pathetic spineless careerists.

[crazyfists]

Naughty knuckles, what do you think of Raab's declared plan to let large businesses take over secondary schools? Think it'll work?
I agree with you about Rory Stewart. He may resemble Alfred E Neuman but a guy who can speak 13 languages is more than just a polyglot.

Not sure about the schools being taken over by big business, I'm not in favour of that one. I really think Stewart (Did an good series on Afghanistan on Netflix) is a decent chap and would like him but he won't get it so thought of the others maybe Raab just to try and inject some dynamism. Personally though I just want rid of Corbyn so labour can get a new leader as don't think we could win with Corbyn, there's not many good looking candidates though to take over.

[jackal2]

As said above Corbyn clearly wants out of the EU but he not say that in public.

Corbyn should say it in public. He should have said it before the referendum. He could have emerged as the only leader of a major political party who actually was in tune with what the majority voted for, but unusually for him (at least back then) he diluted his own views for what he was probably advised would be a more politically pragmatic position, perhaps to placate the 'champagne socialist' element of his party in the south-east. Everybody now knows he thinks one thing, but says something else, which puts him in the same category as most other politicians. If you haven't got the courage to stick to your own beliefs, you'll struggle to lead anyone anywhere.

[dam617]

Just when you think British politics has hit a new low, it manages to go even lower. Boris has decided to hide, because he knows the only way he can lose the leadership contest now is to open his gob and show his true colours. When the other candidates are eliminated they transfer their support to Boris, not because they agree with him but because they know that rocking the boat will harm their chances of a prominent role in his first cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn is just as bad, there is still no clear position on where Labour stand on Brexit. At a time when the country needs strong and principled leadership, MPs from the main parties seem far more concerned with advancing their personal careers than they do sorting the complete shambles Brexit has become.

Why the **** would he agree to appearing on Ch4?
Ive not watched anything political on Ch4 since Cathy Newman got her @rse handed to her by Jordan Peterson.
Krishnan Gurning-Leftie? No thanks.
From what I've read anyone Right of Corbyn gets asked questions like 'so, are you a mysogynist or a fascist, primarily?'

That's if they actually ask a question - rather than going on a rant.
The audience are all hand-wringers and pearl-clutchers and the applause is faked. Just like on QT, which is also pre-recorded.