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Thread: Who Dunnit?

  1. #1
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    Who Dunnit?

    It all sounds a bit fishy to me.

    For once I am on Corbyn's side on this one. We need to establish the truth here and I simply can't give the USA the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

    Without doubt Trump would like all countries to follow his lead and impose strict sanctions on Iran...and the USA have got previous in precipitating unrest in the Middle East.

    Jeremy Hunt is practically dancing to Trumps tune and I feel very uncomfortable about it.

    We need certain proof here before something serious happens and I'm sure we all remember Saddams weapons of mass destruction which never existed. Still, along with the USA we made a packet from the aftermath.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48645280

  2. #2
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    After the lies peddled by Bush and Blair in the lead up to the Iraq war we do need to be sceptical. I will however state Iran is quite capable of these provocative acts and it should not be forgotten that they are continuing to detain Nazanin Ratcliffe on trumped up spying charges. I have to say also imo Corbyn cuts a pretty shambolic figure on the world stage.
    Last edited by outwoodclaret; 15-06-2019 at 07:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by outwoodclaret View Post
    After the lies peddled by Bush and Blair in the lead up to the Iraq war we do need to be sceptical. I will however state Iran is quite capable of these provocative acts and it should not be forgotten that they are continuing to detain Nazanin Ratcliffe on trumped up spying charges. I have to say also imo Corbyn cuts a pretty shambolic figure on the world stage.
    JC just refuses to toe the neo-liberal line. The media driven mob simply hate him for it. I mean come on, who actually needs Trident and nuclear weapons? Why can't there be a united Ireland? Why are the Israelis being allowed to perform insidious genocide on the Palestinians? What is wrong to question the ostentatious wealth and birth privilege of our "Royal Family"? Why don't we kick up a fuss about the Saudis bombing the shoite out of Yemen? Corbyn constantly asks "Why"? The confused muppets who have no idea why Putin and Trump are bombing Syria to bits simply go along with the "Corbyn is a traitor" mantra. The world is going to hell in a handcart and anyone who asks "Why" gets the full hairdryer treatment. Corbyn in particular.

    FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW.

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  4. #4
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    "and the USA have got previous in precipitating unrest in the Middle East."

    And Iran hasn't ? It's their propensity for creating unrest in the region that has led to the sanctions in the first place. They are financing and arming Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, they support the Assad regime in Syria, their proxies are currently firing missiles into Israel and Saudi Arabia. Of course none of this proves they are attacking oil tankers as well, but as that is something they've often threatened to do, why wouldn't they ?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post
    JC just refuses to toe the neo-liberal line. The media driven mob simply hate him for it. I mean come on, who actually needs Trident and nuclear weapons? Why can't there be a united Ireland? Why are the Israelis being allowed to perform insidious genocide on the Palestinians? What is wrong to question the ostentatious wealth and birth privilege of our "Royal Family"? Why don't we kick up a fuss about the Saudis bombing the shoite out of Yemen? Corbyn constantly asks "Why"? The confused muppets who have no idea why Putin and Trump are bombing Syria to bits simply go along with the "Corbyn is a traitor" mantra. The world is going to hell in a handcart and anyone who asks "Why" gets the full hairdryer treatment. Corbyn in particular.

    FOR THE MANY NOT THE FEW.

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    Daft as a brush BT, the world is apparently going to hell in a handcart and you're wetting your knickers about our Royal family. Get a grip man, and there can be a united Ireland, all they need is enough of them asking for a referendum and bob's your uncle. I don't think the Republic are that keen on taking the Orangemen on board just yet though, they have problems enough of their own without that.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by sinkov View Post
    Daft as a brush BT, the world is apparently going to hell in a handcart and you're wetting your knickers about our Royal family. Get a grip man, and there can be a united Ireland, all they need is enough of them asking for a referendum and bob's your uncle. I don't think the Republic are that keen on taking the Orangemen on board just yet though, they have problems enough of their own without that.
    Liz and Phil have just put their Maltese villa up for sale at a cool 5.2 million. Most of us never even knew they had one, where did the money come from in the first place and who is trousering the 5.2 million?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post
    Liz and Phil have just put their Maltese villa up for sale at a cool 5.2 million. Most of us never even knew they had one, where did the money come from in the first place and who is trousering the 5.2 million?
    I'd be slightly more concerned about the 13 billion we give away every year on Foreign Aid BT, which so-called Charities and Quangos are trousering that little lot ? And where does that money come from ? Well we know the answer to that don't we, out of my pocket and yours. And while we fritter away this vast sum, our social care system falls apart, libraries and swimming pools are closed, the NHS screams out for more funding, schools struggle to even provide books and food banks proliferate. And I haven't mentioned the billions we send to fund the EU every year yet.

    I'm almost tempted to talk about living in a lunatic asylum again, but I won't.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sinkov View Post
    I'd be slightly more concerned about the 13 billion we give away every year on Foreign Aid BT, which so-called Charities and Quangos are trousering that little lot ? And where does that money come from ? Well we know the answer to that don't we, out of my pocket and yours. And while we fritter away this vast sum, our social care system falls apart, libraries and swimming pools are closed, the NHS screams out for more funding, schools struggle to even provide books and food banks proliferate. And I haven't mentioned the billions we send to fund the EU every year yet.

    I'm almost tempted to talk about living in a lunatic asylum again, but I won't.
    Without arguing the point, I'm sure I read somewhere that membership of the UN requires a percentage of a member nation's GDP must go to Foreign Aid. It's a mute point for me because I have always wondered who trousers the money and what financial scrutiny is there?

    Quite frankly, even an optimistic and philanthropic global socialist like me can find very little evidence of our Foreign Aid benefitting the global poor. I have yet to find a "normal" Brit who does not think Foreign Aid should be stopped with immediate effect.

    Oxfam are corrupt, the other big charities pay there CEO's outrageously over inflated salaries and meanwhile starvation and deprivation are endemic. We can and must do better.

  9. #9
    Just fact checked this Foreign Aid malarkey sinkov: In 2015 it was put into UK law, which means that the government has a legal duty to meet the 0.7% target. The legal duty can’t be enforced through the courts but the International Development Secretary has to explain herself to parliament if we don’t meet it. By 2020 we will be giving away almost 15 billion. Jesus wept!

  10. #10
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    our Royal family ? I'm sure that "they" are not part of MY family.
    Cosidering how much money that "they" squander, as mentioned by BT, when people such as myself are in the unfortunate position of claiming UC, 317.82 / month, I find it absoloutely ridiculous that "they" and the rest of their extended family spend what is esentially public money....for doing nothing.
    I was listening to BBC Radio 5 last night, the question being asked was about "iconic songs" and one that was mentioned as being as iconic in it's day as it is today was "God save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols.
    I concur.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post
    Just fact checked this Foreign Aid malarkey sinkov: In 2015 it was put into UK law, which means that the government has a legal duty to meet the 0.7% target. The legal duty can’t be enforced through the courts but the International Development Secretary has to explain herself to parliament if we don’t meet it. By 2020 we will be giving away almost 15 billion. Jesus wept!
    That's right BT, we have by law got to give this money away. If there aren't enough worthy causes it doesn't matter, we still have to give the money away somehow, it's insanity when there is so much it could be spent on here. I am not against foreign aid per se, no decent reasonable person could be, if we can help then we should, but the 0.7% should be, if not eradicated, then reduced. But it's one of those neat political traps isn't it, anyone proposing a reduction will become a victim of the outraged PC Brigade and shamed for posterity. So it won't happen, and billions that could be spent on the NHS and Social Care in this country will end up in the Foreign Aid black hole. Still you won't hear the fat cats running Oxfam, Greenpeace, the WWF and dozens (or should that be hundreds) of other quangos complaining as they trouser the loot.

  12. #12
    Two obvious topics are on the table for debate today:

    1). Scrap the Royal Family, (as soon as is practically possible).

    2). Stop giving away the thick end of 15 billion quid per calendar year that does not seem to be making any real difference anywhere.

  13. #13
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    Two different things to sort out on a Sunday BT, far too much to ask. Let's just sort out the most expensive one by far, and leave Brenda alone.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by sinkov View Post
    Two different things to sort out on a Sunday BT, far too much to ask. Let's just sort out the most expensive one by far, and leave Brenda alone.
    I've really got my teeth into this one now sinkov, the more I look the worse it gets. I just knew the Phucking Tories and Lib Dems would be behind this nonsense..."Enshrined into law by the coalition government in 2015, foreign aid spending has, like the NHS, long been ringfenced from years of austerity cuts. Last year, the government hit its 0.7% spending target, contributing a total of 13.9bn to the international aid budget. Can it possibly get any worse other than to find out Clegg and Cameron are at the end of the bung?

  15. #15
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    I believe it was Israel that has satellites and spy equipment that picked up information concerning Iran's actions in the Persian Gulf and Gulf of Oman.I am sure Israel has nano satellites. Israel has the eyes and ears over this region.in fact it can not afford not to have! They would have passed this info to Trump ,the rest we know, American sends its warships to the gulf. I will not say Iran is guilty,but as I child I used to play ''I spy with my little eye .....etc ''

    But looking into the black bag we can pick out one player - Iran, now Iran has presently very hard sanctions there. What happens with sanctions - Unrest ,the currency buys less ,people protest in the streets etc etc.

    Iran can not call Trump to talks ,why because Trump is in a superior position.He can simply say your Nuclear
    Attempts must stop ,together with pulling Iranian troops out of Syria, no funding Hamas Hezbullah .....what ever!!!!

    So Iran must try to bring Trump to them,they have to reverse the situation.To do this they have to cause chaos on that Straits of Hormuz.why? Because the Strait of Hormuz is a narrow, strategically important strait between the Gulf of Oman in the south east and the Persian Gulf. On the north coast is Iran and on the south coast is the United Arab Emirates and Musandam, an exclave of Oman. The strait at its narrowest is 21 nautical miles (39 km) wide,and is considered one of the most, if not the most strategic strait of water on the planet.
    Through its waters, in giant ocean-going tankers, passes much of the oil from Bahrain, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates.That is almost 19 m barrels of oil,everyday. Remember Iran has a ban on its oil sales in 2017 = 66 bill dollars. By somehow blocking tankers passing this waterway ,the worlds prices in oil would start to rise.

    What Iran did it failed ! Film has been shown of the Navy of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps speed boats approaching a tanker and removing something. Well, on this I would say Iran is guilty. That's my vision of this conflict ( one thing for sure if Iran stops funding its proxy groups ,the Pally v Issi conflict counld end !!!)

  16. #16
    I've just read the Israelis have done it to get Iran and the Saudis at each others throats. And that one I can believe!

  17. #17
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    It's all conjecture.

    It could be Israel, Iran or the USA.

    I wouldn't be surprised whoever it was - but until we find out then taking sides is very dangerous.
    We have been here before.

    The USA will certainly put pressure on us and others to take action against Iran - but that would be totally wrong until we see the smoking gun.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sinkov View Post
    "and the USA have got previous in precipitating unrest in the Middle East."

    And Iran hasn't ? It's their propensity for creating unrest in the region that has led to the sanctions in the first place. They are financing and arming Hamas, Hezbollah, the Houthis, they support the Assad regime in Syria, their proxies are currently firing missiles into Israel and Saudi Arabia. Of course none of this proves they are attacking oil tankers as well, but as that is something they've often threatened to do, why wouldn't they ?
    Just a thought. If Israeli commandos indeed did the dirty deed and got Iran and its sworn enemies across the Gulf in Sunni Islam countries and states like Qatar, the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia at each others throats, how good would that be for Israel, Russia and the US? Oil prices shooting up, loads of weapons and fighter planes ordered. Ye Gods it's pay day! It's time to buy shares in BAE methinks!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    It all sounds a bit fishy to me.

    For once I am on Corbyn's side on this one. We need to establish the truth here and I simply can't give the USA the benefit of the doubt at the moment.

    Without doubt Trump would like all countries to follow his lead and impose strict sanctions on Iran...and the USA have got previous in precipitating unrest in the Middle East.

    Jeremy Hunt is practically dancing to Trumps tune and I feel very uncomfortable about it.

    We need certain proof here before something serious happens and I'm sure we all remember Saddams weapons of mass destruction which never existed. Still, along with the USA we made a packet from the aftermath.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48645280
    I'm seriously starting to think it's Israel to increase tensions between Iran and the UAE and its ally Saudi Arabia who have both been heavily involved in bombing Yemen with Iran supporting the other side. 3/1 sounds like good odds to me.

  20. #20
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    BT: A nice thought above ,but practically how could Israel do this without Iran knowing? An Israeli ship, with military personal? It must have military personal to be able to place a mine or some destructive devise? What defence weapons must it carry if in trouble, to defend itself? If Iran knew an Israeli ship was close by?? To be near that waterway? Iran must know who passes near that waterway. If Israel did attempt to cause some damage and the attempt failed ,what would be the relationship between Israel and those Sunny states.
    Those same states are opening up to Israel soon,those states being Sunny find Israel to be a friend as Israel opposes the same Shia regime as they do ,why destroy a friendship which has never gotten as close as this?
    Could an Israeli ship sail down the Red Sea with the Iranians backing the Houthis in the port of Hodeidah? Then sail all the way around S Arabia being undetected? No B T, you have to be practical.

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