O/T For those who claim that the BBC is left wing.

[Exiletyke]

LOL you are actually doing that "freeze peach" thing

Bet you call people "gammons" and talk about "crashing out" of the EU as well.

And call the Daily Mail the "Daily Heil".

A walking talking stereotype.

Whoever referred to Cameron as like a gammon robot was spot on
Cameron used the term "crashing out" on more than one ocassion

[great_fire]

Whoever referred to Cameron as like a gammon robot was spot on
Cameron used the term "crashing out" on more than one ocassion

Only Brexiteers are "gammons" though

[Amanda_Hugg_n_Kiss]

There's plenty of folk both left and right that don't understand devil's advocate, that's at least one of the reasons why folk think it's biased.

[ragingpup]

That's a very long an complicated argument, and this is not really the right place for it.

But the list of things that we're not allowed to talk about gets longer and longer, in case someone gets triggered and their safe space violated, you've just given extreme examples but many of the things they want censored are not extreme at all, like saying there are only two genders which is scientifically accurate but not politically correct.

Its not a really long and complicated argument though is it? I've given you some very simple statements. All you have to do is indicate whether you think each statement is acceptable to be expressed in your opinion. Come on, you put so much effort into promoting free speech and resenting those who you think are denying it to you.

Just start there and that will at least give us some idea of what you mean by the free speech that you think should be allowed and any parameters that even you might think should be on there. If none, fine, just say so.

[great_fire]

Its not a really long and complicated argument though is it? I've given you some very simple statements. All you have to do is indicate whether you think each statement is acceptable to be expressed in your opinion. Come on, you put so much effort into promoting free speech and resenting those who you think are denying it to you.

Just start there and that will at least give us some idea of what you mean by the free speech that you think should be allowed and any parameters that even you might think should be on there. If none, fine, just say so.

Well there's the obvious one about shouting "fire" in a cinema isn't there?

You just have to look at the First Amendment really which we desperately need over here too.

[Amanda_Hugg_n_Kiss]

Where does it come from the thinking that people campaigning for free speech are just wanting to say racist things? Got any examples that prove this is the case? Because it's certainly not the case for any of the people that I've encountered although they get plenty of idiots accusing them of it. Any actual racists I've encountered are just racist and say what they want, not seen them complaining about free speech. And actual fascists are firmly against free speech for anyone who isn't them very similar to Antifa.

[KerrAvon]

Well there's the obvious one about shouting "fire" in a cinema isn't there?

You just have to look at the First Amendment really which we desperately need over here too.

Why do you need the First Amendment when you already have Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights?

[ragingpup]

Where does it come from the thinking that people campaigning for free speech are just wanting to say racist things? Got any examples that prove this is the case? Because it's certainly not the case for any of the people that I've encountered although they get plenty of idiots accusing them of it. Any actual racists I've encountered are just racist and say what they want, not seen them complaining about free speech. And actual fascists are firmly against free speech for anyone who isn't them very similar to Antifa.

I have found that people who are obsessed with the free speech issue are also extremely concerned with the preserving national identity by halting immigration, blame foreign people for the rise of crime in the UK, property prices and seem to generalise small groups of left wing fanatics in the Antifa and LBGT+ movement to becoming a large scale fascist movement that is a threat to them somehow. They see the BBC and many other such organisations as being left wing propagandists.

As I've said before, the concerns and the language that these people use tend to be very similar. And when you look at and listen to some of the conspiricist web sites, it's easy to see what is happening.

But from talking to such people, and I have personally spoken to a few that have emerged in the last few years, it only takes a few questions to reveal that all of these centre around preserving British identity and that immigrants are a threat to us.

Wishing to preserve English identity and traditions is fair enough. I'm proud of our relatively tolerant and open culture. But as we often seen on here, it is a fine line between this and seeing English culture as somehow superior, better than, other cultures and to see other cultures that we have chosen to invite and work in our country, as making us worse as a country. Likewise, using the crimes of the relative few criminals from people of these immigrant cultures to generalise hostile comments to their innocents majorities. That's where simple concern concern to preserve English identity becomes more sinister.

It would, despite what Fire says, be very simple to say that the phrase "Go home you paki *******" is in his opinion unacceptable. You might well say 'of course it is' but I'm asking Fire. And for some reason he finds it very difficult to answer. I wonder why?

I personally am just very interested, when people repeatedly (it obviously is a big concern of yours too) say that their 'free speech' is being eroded, exactly what that means, to find out where the parameters of what is and isn't acceptable to such people are. they choose to put these opinions on a message board - they shouldn't complain or say "it's too complicated to discuss on here" when others ask them to unpack what they mean by that. I've got time to listen. And tbh, as a start it doesn't take long to type "Yes" or "No" in response to 5 simple pieces of speech?

I would suggest, if people don't want to be challenged for their clearly passionately held views, then simply talk about football on a football message board?

[great_fire]

Not protected by the First Amendment:

Obscenity
Fighting words
Defamation (including libel and slander)
Child ****ography
Perjury
Blackmail
Incitement to imminent lawless action
True threats
Solicitations to commit crimes

[great_fire]

Why do you need the First Amendment when you already have Article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights?

Because we should have never signed up to that criminal's rights charter, see why you like it though, Blair signed it to give his wife more work didn't he?