Who’s At Fault?

[RED_JOHN]

It's going to take hours to work out who was to blame for the 15 goals Celtic are probably going to put past us in a few weeks time.

I think it could be a good time to meet Celtic. They have dropped 5 points from their last 2 matches so I would imagine their confidence isn’t quite as strong as normal. It really doesn’t matter about our confidence as we will make it a very difficult match for ourselves anyway....it’s the McInnes way.

[redstarfk]

Very harsh to blame Considine for the goal. Only reason he “lost” Porteous was that he recognised the immediate danger was Thomas about to shoot unchallenged so he tried to get in a position to block the shot.

And the goal should’ve been disallowed anyway. When Porteous shoots Doidge is offside and interfering with play as he impedes McKenna from trying to block the shot.

[afc1903mad]

Very harsh to blame Considine for the goal. Only reason he “lost” Porteous was that he recognised the immediate danger was Thomas about to shoot unchallenged so he tried to get in a position to block the shot.

And the goal should’ve been disallowed anyway. When Porteous shoots Doidge is offside and interfering with play as he impedes McKenna from trying to block the shot.

Whilst you make some very valid points, the desperados won’t have any of it.

[NaeMairNeeps]

OK, watched the highlights, and, afraid to say, I disagree with everybody.

I think apportioning blame to Conesi and/or Main is harsh. Yeah, we agree they have their limitations, but other than failing to be superhuman, I dont think there was time for to even think about making a decision from the moment James took a shot, and the moment it deflected kindly to Porteus.

What I saw was Ferguson being completely ineffective in challenging a short corner .... but effective in having the ball passed around him 'effectively' taking himself out of the game .... then I saw Leigh being ineffective in shuttin down James, allowing him the time and space to shoot a dangerous ball towards goal ... which, although could have ended up anywhere, ended up behind Joe Lewis.

So, whilst I think it unreasonable to expect Conesi or Main to have done any better except by accident, I do think Ferguson was made a fool of, but to me, there is no reason why Leigh could not have moved a tad sharper. It is entirely possible he could have blocked James' shot, or at the very least put immediate pressure on the guy, likely causing him to 'hurry' the shot, or even to make a different decision.

I like Greg Leigh, but I saw what I saw, and looked at it a few times, and for me, Leigh is most at fault.

[RED_JOHN]

OK, watched the highlights, and, afraid to say, I disagree with everybody.

I think apportioning blame to Conesi and/or Main is harsh. Yeah, we agree they have their limitations, but other than failing to be superhuman, I dont think there was time for to even think about making a decision from the moment James took a shot, and the moment it deflected kindly to Porteus.

What I saw was Ferguson being completely ineffective in challenging a short corner .... but effective in having the ball passed around him 'effectively' taking himself out of the game .... then I saw Leigh being ineffective in shuttin down James, allowing him the time and space to shoot a dangerous ball towards goal ... which, although could have ended up anywhere, ended up behind Joe Lewis.

So, whilst I think it unreasonable to expect Conesi or Main to have done any better except by accident, I do think Ferguson was made a fool of, but to me, there is no reason why Leigh could not have moved a tad sharper. It is entirely possible he could have blocked James' shot, or at the very least put immediate pressure on the guy, likely causing him to 'hurry' the shot, or even to make a different decision.

I like Greg Leigh, but I saw what I saw, and looked at it a few times, and for me, Leigh is most at fault.

It wasn’t James that scored though. His shot was blocked. Considine was Considine and switched off and gave the scorer plenty more space and time to tuck the ball away. Considine was to blame. His defending all afternoon was abysmal. Our most experienced defender looking like a bad Sunday league defender again.

[NaeMairNeeps]

Appreciate yer take on things RJ, but by the time the ba' reached Porteus, Ah dinna think any defender, in the positions they were in, adding the fact nae even the world's best goalie can effectively react to, let alone predict the result o' a deflection, Ah canna see how Considine or Main can possibly be 'at fault'.

So either the goal was the result o' Porteous bein in the right place at the right time, to catch a lucky outcome o' a deflection, and had the 'instinct (or further luck) tae knock it home, ... and no-one in red was at fault, or ....

... the luck was upped by way of James' ball struck directly towards goal, into a tight group of players in the six yard area, where it might have sneaked through a gap ahead of a blindsided Lewis, or a different deflection might have taken it goalward past a stunned and bewildered Lewis, or gone out for another corner, or bounced about and fell at the feet of a team-mate (which it did) .... or some lesser outcome. But the time and space James was allowed was the biggest factor in the losing of that goal.

I did look again, and now think that although Ferguson had reason to move in on the short corner, there was too much of a delay in Leigh's filling in of that crucial space he (Ferguson) allowed to open up. So, if it is the case Ferguson did this without considering that risk, and or failing to communicate with Leigh his intentions, then maybe Leigh is not as culpable as I previously concluded ... but that is the point in time where we gave the goal away, and there certainly was a delay between Ferguson abandoning that key area and Leigh attempting (failing) to 'plug' it.

My enduring reason for suspecting Leigh is all about the direction of his run ... camera angle might be misleading, but it looked like he was heading to a position behind James, whereas running to a position in front of him would have been shorter, in any case, more effective.

But hey ho, Ah'll butt oot now and look forward tae other folks' take. Will add tho, it should have been ruled affside! ... no way an attackin player, positioned between the last defender and the goalkeeper in front of goal, at all times from just before the time the ball reached Porteous until it was in the net, could be considered as 'not interfering with play'.

[afc1903mad]

All good discussions guys.

For me, Ferguson reacted correctly in closing the short corner.
He did his role in forcing his player to move away from goal.
He would have had little chance on a 2v1 situation or indeed 3v1 when the Hibs boy James joined in.
I would have expected the guy on the front post to also close down the corner taker (Mallan) making it 2 v 2 , with the guy at the back post moving forward to cover the front post

For Leigh, he was initially marking another player (no 20 I think), who dropped deep, presumably to cover James run forward into the space, he then reacted to James moving forward into space and tried to get across.

All this taken into consideration, I still think the root cause for the ball deflecting fortuitously to Porteous was James being given the freedom to get a shot off from the edge of the box and could have been prevented had Ross tracked James's run.
You even see him coming into frame too late in the highlights

[NaeMairNeeps]

A wee aside tho ..... against my better judgement .....

Thatcher.

Ah see a direct correlation between Maggoty's decision tae stop free school milk in 1971 and the failure o' the Scottish national team reachin a major competition since 1998 ... the peak of our efforts being in 1974, and the beginning of our 'slump' being in 1978 .... where the youngest of the squad might have been at the top end of the first to be deprived of same. By 1998, even the more experienced players in our national team would not have known free school milk and free school meals.

Add to that strikes and work-to-rules which decimated extra curricular activities, overseen by teachers, and ... Ach, other than consider the social environments the greatest fitba players came fae, as opposed tae that which produced doctors and lawyers, Ah'll stop there ... ye ken the rest

[Devanha Red]

OK, watched the highlights, and, afraid to say, I disagree with everybody.

I think apportioning blame to Conesi and/or Main is harsh. Yeah, we agree they have their limitations, but other than failing to be superhuman, I dont think there was time for to even think about making a decision from the moment James took a shot, and the moment it deflected kindly to Porteus.

What I saw was Ferguson being completely ineffective in challenging a short corner .... but effective in having the ball passed around him 'effectively' taking himself out of the game .... then I saw Leigh being ineffective in shuttin down James, allowing him the time and space to shoot a dangerous ball towards goal ... which, although could have ended up anywhere, ended up behind Joe Lewis.

So, whilst I think it unreasonable to expect Conesi or Main to have done any better except by accident, I do think Ferguson was made a fool of, but to me, there is no reason why Leigh could not have moved a tad sharper. It is entirely possible he could have blocked James' shot, or at the very least put immediate pressure on the guy, likely causing him to 'hurry' the shot, or even to make a different decision.

I like Greg Leigh, but I saw what I saw, and looked at it a few times, and for me, Leigh is most at fault.

Racialist.

[afc1903mad]

A wee aside tho ..... against my better judgement .....



Ah see a direct correlation between Maggoty's decision tae stop free school milk in 1971

Just to be a wee bit pedantic .
That must've been 1981