O/T Ministers 'consider night ban for new drivers'

[KerrAvon]

Ban for lorry drivers on motorways and A roads? Oh, we wouldn't be able to do that would we.

Why not just give people a minimum 5 year sentence for death by dangerous driving?

5 years would not be far from the average sentence for death by dangerous. You have to give the courts a bit of discretion - some death by dangerous cases are examples of people making gross errors of judgement rather than choosing to drive badly and endanger others.

[Shark27]

5 years would not be far from the average sentence for death by dangerous. You have to give the courts a bit of discretion - some death by dangerous cases are examples of people making gross errors of judgement rather than choosing to drive badly and endanger others.

Does that mean that they are out in 2 and half years then?

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving? Not realising your doing 45 in a 30 zone?

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

The Court system is a shambles

[KerrAvon]

Does that mean that they are out in 2 and half years then?

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving? Not realising your doing 45 in a 30 zone?

As a general rule someone would serve half their sentence before being released on licence.

Doing 45 in a 30 would not be treated as dangerous driving. If speeding was routinely treated as being dangerous half of this site would be doing time and half of the remainder would be thanking their lucky stars that they hadn't been caught yet.

[KerrAvon]

The Court system is a shambles

In what sense, Jolly/Easy? In international terms, we send a significant proportion of our population to prison. Does it help? I am not convinced.

[Brin]

In what sense, Jolly/Easy? In international terms, we send a significant proportion of our population to prison. Does it help? I am not convinced.

What a load of crap!

Our prison system is such over flowing that you can see regular cases of men having attacked people armed with bladed knives receiving 18 months to 2 year prison sentences ‘suspended’ for 2 years with a stupid community order. They laugh at that sentence because that is not a deterrent. They cannot simply jail them when they should be jailed.

The immigrant European population of jailed men is on the increase. Why not deport them hence where they came from?

The judicial system is Victorian and out dated and requires a shake up to bring it into the modern world and make the punishment fit the crime!

[Shark27]

As a general rule someone would serve half their sentence before being released on licence.

Doing 45 in a 30 would not be treated as dangerous driving. If speeding was routinely treated as being dangerous half of this site would be doing time and half of the remainder would be thanking their lucky stars that they hadn't been caught yet.

So I'm saying minimum of 5 years. Therefore a sentence of 10 years.

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving dangerously out of interest?

[KerrAvon]

What a load of crap!

Our prison system is such over flowing that you can see regular cases of men having attacked people armed with bladed knives receiving 18 months to 2 year prison sentences ‘suspended’ for 2 years with a stupid community order. They laugh at that sentence because that is not a deterrent. They cannot simply jail them when they should be jailed.

The immigrant European population of jailed men is on the increase. Why not deport them hence where they came from?

The judicial system is Victorian and out dated and requires a shake up to bring it into the modern world and make the punishment fit the crime!

Which bit is a load of crap, Brin?

The UK does send a very high proportion of its population to prison compared with other countries. Does it help to cut crime? I'm not convinced.

I doubt whether you would be able to find many - if any - examples of men being given suspended sentences for knife attacks, but sentences are determined on a case by case basis, so fill your boots and prove me wrong.

Foreign nationals are certainly over represented in the prison population, but I would be careful with that. People from poorer backgrounds and with lower levels of educational attainment are also over represented and it may be that many recent immigrants fall into that latter group.

EU citizens can only be deported on grounds of public policy or public safety and regard has to be given to the right to a private and family life that were are lucky enough to enjoy under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights, but plenty of EU national criminals are deported after they serve their sentence (or, in some cases, in order to serve their sentence.

In what way do you say the judicial syetem is Victorian, Brin?

[KerrAvon]

So I'm saying minimum of 5 years. Therefore a sentence of 10 years.

What is an example of a gross error of judgement when driving dangerously out of interest?

I disagree with you on the minimum sentence, Shark. I think courts need to be able to determine sentences on a case by case basis, because the facts of cases vary hugely.

I am a bit nervous about giving examples of cases in which I have been involved, lest elements of my fan club use Google to work out who I am and use it in their stalking agendas, but let me say this: dangerous driving can be committed upon the basis of the state of a vehicle, anything attached to or carried on or in it and to the manner in which it is attached or carried. So, theoretically, I once had involvement in a case where a workman was doing a job and nipped to a supplier a couple of miles away to pick up an item he needed, but failed to properly secure it on the back of his vehicle (he had secured it – just not very well). It fell off and another motorist was killed. He was charged with and entered a guilty plea to causing death by dangerous driving and was sent to prison for what was clearly a gross error of judgement. He was a working family man in his 50s who had never had so much as a parking ticket before in his life. 10 years for him? I don’t agree with that.

[Shark27]

I disagree with you on the minimum sentence, Shark. I think courts need to be able to determine sentences on a case by case basis, because the facts of cases vary hugely.

I am a bit nervous about giving examples of cases in which I have been involved, lest elements of my fan club use Google to work out who I am and use it in their stalking agendas, but let me say this: dangerous driving can be committed upon the basis of the state of a vehicle, anything attached to or carried on or in it and to the manner in which it is attached or carried. So, theoretically, I once had involvement in a case where a workman was doing a job and nipped to a supplier a couple of miles away to pick up an item he needed, but failed to properly secure it on the back of his vehicle (he had secured it – just not very well). It fell off and another motorist was killed. He was charged with and entered a guilty plea to causing death by dangerous driving and was sent to prison for what was clearly a gross error of judgement. He was a working family man in his 50s who had never had so much as a parking ticket before in his life. 10 years for him? I don’t agree with that.

I would imagine that if you were to represent someone in a similar scenario you would argue that it is careless driving? This is more like a freak accident.

On the other hand if someone is doing 45 in a 30 zone and kills a child then a 10 year sentence would be sufficient. This, in my opinion, would be classed as more dangerous than your example. If people are aware of the consequences then they have no excuse whether that is me, you or anyone else.