Saiz gone 2-3M

[WTF11]

A reminder WTF and fair point for many to digest is how do you think Leeds or any club is actually funded nowadays ?

A good example was the sale of Reading to a Thai consortium four years ago was notable not just for the length of time it took the new owners to satisfy the Football League’s Owners and Directors test but also for the manner in which the sale agreement was apparently signed I recall (all be it now over four years ago) the FSA had an interest at that time via concerned Reading fans and knowledge was made public.

Reading had taken a loan from Vibrac Corporation which the repayment obligations were secured against the future broadcasting revenue streams due to Reading from the Premier League (and including the parachute payments following their relegation in 2012/13). The security granted also covered all the other assets of and shares in Reading.According to press articles the loan was not repaid on time which allowed Vibrac to heavily influence and control the sale process.

Whilst this is in line with a secured lender's general rights and remedies once a loan is in default (which ultimately extend to being able to take control of the borrower if the loan remains unpaid), it does bring into focus the fact that taking on these types of lending facilities is by no means risk free.

Reading are not alone in utilising “forward funding” structures to raise capital -as Everton, West Ham, Fulham and Southampton are just a few others who have raised finance recently by pledging their future revenues (most commonly from broadcasting monies coming via the Premier League) in return for cash upfront from a funder. Many other clubs both in the UK and Europe do exactly the same with transfer fees which are due to be paid in instalments rather than in one lump sum please note, so you can draw your own conclusion now to how the Rad funds our club and where money generated from player sales actually goes - that situation has been going on long before Rad's arrival ......................

Obviously an independent deal for broadcasting our own games would be welcome for the cash-till but it won't happen this season so we've got what we've got and as ever I'll be backing the club positively on/off the pitch.

For balance the music industry suffered the same dilemma regarding finance but now crowd funding,YouTube etc allows artists/bands to appeal direct to a vast global audience.Which may just happen to football - who knows ........?

MOT

As with many of your responses, irrelevant to he subject of the thread. Of course we have to "live within our means" (shorthand for your view), but we have, by all public information available, added around £20m to the corporate bank balance, and spent what to acquire "new talent"? £5 - 7m. So where has the balance gone, and what is going to be done with it? Or, if your take on matters is to be the way forward, the "funding" of Championship clubs like ours, without a very prosperous owner, is by selling, as I suggested in my post you kindly responded to. If that's how it is, at least the owner should be honest, and cease touting the prospect of promotion, which is likely only to come around by accident rather than design?

[whitestomper45]

You knew I'd respond!

"We don't shop in the "past the sell by date" bargain basement".....Correction....apart from Costa who might be a 1st team start, WE DON'T SHOP, we just sell.

You ALWAYS reply .. If we don't buy a player, we should be, if we do sign a player he's crap...is your usual stance.

We need a certain type of centre half, so it's not that easy to find. Citeh invested in Stones he didn't exactly hit the ground running. Klopp waited over a year for his target.

As for 1st team signings: Harrison is a first team signing as is Clarke. We hopefully have re-signed and held on to Phillips ditto Roofe. I have a feeling White will be in the first team at some stage this season on a regular basis.

[WTF11]

You ALWAYS reply .. If we don't buy a player, we should be, if we do sign a player he's crap...is your usual stance.

We need a certain type of centre half, so it's not that easy to find. Citeh invested in Stones he didn't exactly hit the ground running. Klopp waited over a year for his target.

As for 1st team signings: Harrison is a first team signing as is Clarke. We hopefully have re-signed and held on to Phillips ditto Roofe. I have a feeling White will be in the first team at some stage this season on a regular basis.

"Clutching at straws" springs to mind. Harrison is simply extending his lack lustre presence, Clarke ditto (although hopefully he can regain some if the form from earlier in the last season). White may or may not shape up. The only real addition is Costa.

If you care to look back, I've never suggested we go out and sweep up players (quite the opposite in terms of Ortas supermarket sweep approach), simply to spend where it's required (and are you suggesting we don't need to bring in a Jansson replacement and someone who can provide what "powder puff" Bamford clearly can't?). We surely have funds for one, or both?

And as for what other managers/club's have ir haven't done, I don't give a f00k, I don't support those teams!

[MrsORichSenior]

As with many of your responses, irrelevant to he subject of the thread. Of course we have to "live within our means" (shorthand for your view), but we have, by all public information available, added around £20m to the corporate bank balance, and spent what to acquire "new talent"? £5 - 7m. So where has the balance gone, and what is going to be done with it? Or, if your take on matters is to be the way forward, the "funding" of Championship clubs like ours, without a very prosperous owner, is by selling, as I suggested in my post you kindly responded to. If that's how it is, at least the owner should be honest, and cease touting the prospect of promotion, which is likely only to come around by accident rather than design?

............. 'irrelevant' you state - I suggest you look at your Post 8 in this Thread and subsequent replies 9&10 and if memory serves me a Thread I did earlier this year regarding Rad seeking securities from the City regarding finance restructure was being sort now appears to be correct.

BUT as ever "minimum margins" (short hand) is irrelevant to you and is conveniently flipped into 'we are a selling club'
mantra.I made my point.

MOT

[MrsORichSenior]

As with many of your responses, irrelevant to he subject of the thread. Of course we have to "live within our means" (shorthand for your view), but we have, by all public information available, added around £20m to the corporate bank balance, and spent what to acquire "new talent"? £5 - 7m. So where has the balance gone, and what is going to be done with it? Or, if your take on matters is to be the way forward, the "funding" of Championship clubs like ours, without a very prosperous owner, is by selling, as I suggested in my post you kindly responded to. If that's how it is, at least the owner should be honest, and cease touting the prospect of promotion, which is likely only to come around by accident rather than design?

............. 'irrelevant' you state - I suggest you look at your Post 8 in this Thread and subsequent replies 9&10 and if memory serves me a Thread I did earlier this year regarding Rad seeking securities from the City regarding finance restructure guarrantees was being sort now appears to be correct.

BUT as ever "minimum margins" (short hand) is irrelevant to you and is conveniently flipped into 'we are a selling club'
mantra.I've made my point & you've made yours end of.

MOT

[Ozwhites]

............. 'irrelevant' you state - I suggest you look at your Post 8 in this Thread and subsequent replies 9&10 and if memory serves me a Thread I did earlier this year regarding Rad seeking securities from the City regarding finance restructure guarrantees was being sort now appears to be correct.

BUT as ever "minimum margins" (short hand) is irrelevant to you and is conveniently flipped into 'we are a selling club'
mantra.I've made my point & you've made yours end of.

MOT

"End of".... Surely you jest!

[WTF11]

............. 'irrelevant' you state - I suggest you look at your Post 8 in this Thread and subsequent replies 9&10 and if memory serves me a Thread I did earlier this year regarding Rad seeking securities from the City regarding finance restructure guarrantees was being sort now appears to be correct.

BUT as ever "minimum margins" (short hand) is irrelevant to you and is conveniently flipped into 'we are a selling club'
mantra.I've made my point & you've made yours end of.

MOT

As Oz correctly assumed........your point was about funding the club over an extended period of time, mine (originally, in post #8) was to enquire what the funds GENERATED BY PLAYER SALES now were being (or might be) used for within the context of THIS TRANSFER WINDOW, given that we are (presumably) wishing to continue to push for promotion, rather than simply being a feeder club for others. Slightly different focus, until you sought to conflate opex funding with "capital" investment, something I didn't mention, nor was it the subject of the thread, hence your contribution was, and is, irrelevant to the subject of the THREAD.

I'm not "flipping" anything, unless of course you consider one "real" incomer (White) a new loanee (Costa) and the return of the great white hope that is Harrison as being in any way warranting the description of real investment, when we see Pontus sold, Clarke sold, almost the whole of the league-winning U23s squad sold or being touted, and (at last) the dross that we acquired in the Orta super-market sweep days being offloaded (the latter is nothing more than getting rid of bad rubbish that should never have been brought in in the first place)?

We may see others being brought on board before the window closes, who knows, but at this moment, in the last TWO transfer windows, we have Casilla, White, Costa and err............................................... ..............................

[whitestomper45]

As Oz correctly assumed........your point was about funding the club over an extended period of time, mine (originally, in post #8) was to enquire what the funds GENERATED BY PLAYER SALES now were being (or might be) used for within the context of THIS TRANSFER WINDOW, given that we are (presumably) wishing to continue to push for promotion, rather than simply being a feeder club for others. Slightly different focus, until you sought to conflate opex funding with "capital" investment, something I didn't mention, nor was it the subject of the thread, hence your contribution was, and is, irrelevant to the subject of the THREAD.

I'm not "flipping" anything, unless of course you consider one "real" incomer (White) a new loanee (Costa) and the return of the great white hope that is Harrison as being in any way warranting the description of real investment, when we see Pontus sold, Clarke sold, almost the whole of the league-winning U23s squad sold or being touted, and (at last) the dross that we acquired in the Orta super-market sweep days being offloaded (the latter is nothing more than getting rid of bad rubbish that should never have been brought in in the first place)?

We may see others being brought on board before the window closes, who knows, but at this moment, in the last TWO transfer windows, we have Casilla, White, Costa and err............................................... ..............................

The harsh reality of being a young professional footballer is that many will not make the grade, particularly so as you move up the pyramid. You seem to imply every signing we make for the U23's should be given a chance in the 1st team. The U23 league is miles away from the combative league we are in.

Yes we gamble on all signings, hoping that maybe 1 a season makes the breakthrough. If we are offered good money by a PL team for a real find thats the harsh reality of where we are at.

We all prefer to have an additional 1 or 3 players, but only ones that fit the system, and preferably are not disruptive.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

As Oz correctly assumed........your point was about funding the club over an extended period of time, mine (originally, in post #8) was to enquire what the funds GENERATED BY PLAYER SALES now were being (or might be) used for within the context of THIS TRANSFER WINDOW, given that we are (presumably) wishing to continue to push for promotion, rather than simply being a feeder club for others. Slightly different focus, until you sought to conflate opex funding with "capital" investment, something I didn't mention, nor was it the subject of the thread, hence your contribution was, and is, irrelevant to the subject of the THREAD.

I'm not "flipping" anything, unless of course you consider one "real" incomer (White) a new loanee (Costa) and the return of the great white hope that is Harrison as being in any way warranting the description of real investment, when we see Pontus sold, Clarke sold, almost the whole of the league-winning U23s squad sold or being touted, and (at last) the dross that we acquired in the Orta super-market sweep days being offloaded (the latter is nothing more than getting rid of bad rubbish that should never have been brought in in the first place)?

We may see others being brought on board before the window closes, who knows, but at this moment, in the last TWO transfer windows, we have Casilla, White, Costa and err............................................... ..............................

Why don’t you wait till the end of the transfer window and see what happens before you slag of Orta/Radz/Bielsa (for being stubborn and not playing how your genius sees it)/any on here who expresses a different pov?

I know the answer so no need to reply but sure you will anyway

[WTF11]

The harsh reality of being a young professional footballer is that many will not make the grade, particularly so as you move up the pyramid. You seem to imply every signing we make for the U23's should be given a chance in the 1st team. The U23 league is miles away from the combative league we are in.

Yes we gamble on all signings, hoping that maybe 1 a season makes the breakthrough. If we are offered good money by a PL team for a real find thats the harsh reality of where we are at.

We all prefer to have an additional 1 or 3 players, but only ones that fit the system, and preferably are not disruptive.

That wasn't my point WS, and I'm NOT trying to have an argument. My point, as with others, was that we have sold a number of players, (never mind that Clarke is loaned back, thats nothing to do with funds received), from U23, 1st team, loanees who aren't ever going to be good enough etc, and only White is a transfer, Costa is another loanee coming in. So, whether (to take your point about funds "up front") we have all the money or not, we should be able to do what other clubs have done, borrow against future revenue if needs be, to bolster what funds we have received, and there should be more than the next to bugger-all we paid for White available for investment, and the squad needs it.

On the comment about the U23s, yes if they aren't good enough, ship out, never said otherwise. But I'm surprised, like many others, that Shackleton, Edmonson, and others who HAVE shown real promise have been given very limited exposure to the 1st team, and how do they emerge, if all we do is then loan them out to lower league clubs where many end up warming the bench rather than playing?