Jeremy Hunt

[baggieal]

The whole thing has been one sorry mess. Despite MP's on all sides blaming everyone else, 90% of the house voted for the public to vote in a referendum so I guess the moral of that tale is don't ask the question if you don't like the answer.

The negotiations were a fiasco. I've negotiated pan European and global contracts as part of my job on occasion. One of the key rules is that both sides must want the same outcome. There may be differences of opinion as to how we get there and what it costs but fundamentally they must want the same outcome. This was never going to happen. It's bad business for the EU if we leave with a good deal as it sends out the wrong messages. That's why no deal should never have been taken off the table. The moment you lose the option to get up and walk away you're screwed. It's a bit like your bank having you by the financial balls and you having to do exactly what they say. It's something our dimwitted negotiators never got. I'd rather stay in than have some half cocked deal that pleases no one like May was after. Given we have Corbyn or the Lib Dems as our only other options I think Boris's approach is at least worth a go so lets judge him once he's had a go.

Could not agree more Stripes!! I am a CIPS qualified purchasing professional and also question why you would take a no deal off the table as this would make no sense! A perfect negotiation is a win win but in this case it was never going to happen so it’s a case of - which side has more power and less to lose! The EU need us more than we need them and if we do as hoped prosper when we leave - more countries will follow us! Many EU countries are struggling and even the German manufacturing is on the decline. Trump has a big mouth and not well liked outside the US but the US economy and employment rates are good!

What would you rather have as a football manager - a nasty ******* who is not that well liked who achieves results or a soft nice guy like Darren Moore who can’t make a decision and learn quickly from a mistake?

[regis80]

I’ve said for some time and thought that taking the no deal off the table was a mistake and this coming from someone who voted remain. How the hell are you meant to bargain with them if you don’t have a threat you’d walk away with nothing.
These problems were caused by Teresa’s early refusal to work with other parties or even set up an independent body to take over. On top of this, there are too many MP from both sides with too many voices playing into this and basically hampering any chance to effectively negotiate.
We are never going to be able to tactically look after number 1 (the nation) if you play your cards out in public for everyone to get enraged over. No deal is terrifying, but it needed to be used but other parties are trying scupper the whole thing to meet their own agenda. What a mess!

[baggieal]

I’ve said for some time and thought that taking the no deal off the table was a mistake and this coming from someone who voted remain. How the hell are you meant to bargain with them if you don’t have a threat you’d walk away with nothing.
These problems were caused by Teresa’s early refusal to work with other parties or even set up an independent body to take over. On top of this, there are too many MP from both sides with too many voices playing into this and basically hampering any chance to effectively negotiate.
We are never going to be able to tactically look after number 1 (the nation) if you play your cards out in public for everyone to get enraged over. No deal is terrifying, but it needed to be used but other parties are trying scupper the whole thing to meet their own agenda. What a mess!

Good post Regis and you are spot on!! Even now before Boris has really done anything the knives are out which is plain stupid!

[9goals2hattricks3pen]

I feel the same.

I’ve been negotiating deals since the day before my 17th birthday 923.

At a low level in retail at that age but by 22 I was out on the road doing it.

It makes me want to weep when I hear how we handled this......it is a sign of a total lack of nous by the political class but in astonished the Tory’s f u c k e d this up.

If Hammond as Chancellor wasn’t fit to be included in negotiations then he wasn’t the right man for Chancellor!

I’m just an ordinary bloke who runs a business employing 10 people including myself like so many other Brits do but I can tell you this if I’d been running the talks,

1/ No deal stays on the table.

2/ No £39 Billion until a free trade agreement is signed and even then it wouldn’t have been such a large payment and it’d be over a long period of time.

We caved in too easily and left ourselves with no cards to play under May.

I like this cards analogy.

We started off with a strong hand of
Trumps (eg £8billion pa of contributions)
Aces (eg 1 in 7 German cars sold in the UK)
Picture Cards (eg the most efficient and advanced security services in the EU)

and we gave em all away.

We acheived the never before seen and made Europe look united which they are palpably not. If we had applied pressure on individual nations cracks would have appeared which we could have taken advantage of.

You recommended Alan Sugar for the negotiating team I reckon The Sugar Babes could have done a better job than May & Co.

[westcountryvillain]

A post higher up this thread quotes the world as being bereft of moral leadership; religion I believe was the thing that kept the masses under control and the then absence of social media ensured it stayed that way. Since the referendum, Brexit has been front and centre of politics with little or no progress with any other issues affecting the nation. It's divided us and I agree it was completely wrong to take no-deal off the table, especially when Article 50 was voted on.

I like that Boris has drawn attention to policing, hospitals and the outrageous costs of care - it's a clever move to balance up the agenda a bit & draw the media's gaze to a more positive outlook. He's brought more energy in a 6 minute speech on the steps of number 10 than May did in whole of her tenure. He needs to be given a chance.

[WBA123]

One thing for sure if we had gone into negotiations back in 2016 with the style Boris is now promising we would have left by March with a deal.

How?

We would still have the Irish border issue.

We would still be much worse off for leaving without a deal.

We would still have the RW press and hardliner Brexiteers unhappy at any deal on the table.

We would still have more MPs in Parliament against a No Deal Brexit.

The EU would not have changed their negotiating position, which has been consistent from day one.

I don't see how having Johnson in charge would have changed anything.

Many of the same issues that May originally faced are the same as what Johnson now faces.

[WBA123]

”To reach a free trade agreement with the EU should be one of the easiest tasks in the history of mankind” (Liam Fox, July 2017) 😎

"There will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market" (Boris Johnson, June 26th 2016)

This is the same man who is apparently now favouring a No Deal Brexit.

[WBA123]

I'm just Glad that 123 isn't dealing with the EU. I couldn't bare to see the grovelling. The EU is treating us with contempt, has done for years. The only thing it likes about us is our money. We should tell them where to get off and close the door. WTO rules and if they want a trade deal there's the phone.

You have zero idea what you are talking about.

[baggieal]

A post higher up this thread quotes the world as being bereft of moral leadership; religion I believe was the thing that kept the masses under control and the then absence of social media ensured it stayed that way. Since the referendum, Brexit has been front and centre of politics with little or no progress with any other issues affecting the nation. It's divided us and I agree it was completely wrong to take no-deal off the table, especially when Article 50 was voted on.

I like that Boris has drawn attention to policing, hospitals and the outrageous costs of care - it's a clever move to balance up the agenda a bit & draw the media's gaze to a more positive outlook. He's brought more energy in a 6 minute speech on the steps of number 10 than May did in whole of her tenure. He needs to be given a chance.

Sensible post and totally agree with you!! Boris does need to be given a chance and he’s certainly making all the right noises.

Any purchasing professional would say to take no deal off the table is pure stupidity as it weakens any negotiation!

[albion68]

You have zero idea what you are talking about.

boingy,will you stop arguing with a fool.as al says simple as 123 .