Reed on loan ......

[champs95]

Really gutted we didnt get him. We went in for him yesterday and threw everything we had into getting him back.
We desperately needed him back, especially seeing the midfield we have. It needed a injection. They are all currently doing the same things, and we have nobody doing anything creative. Or driving forward, like Reed did.
The current system doesn't work with the current set of players, so it will need to be changed, and we need to find balance.

Sadly Fulham came in and gazumped us on price. So he's gone to them and made them stronger.

At least after last week, TM see's where the problems are and has tried to address it. At least one of the main culprits has been jettisoned. I don't expect to see Bennett's name appear near the first team squad anytime soon.

[seventwo]

Yes, would have loved him back but Fulham made an offer he couldn't refuse

[AucklandRover]

Champs - I think we shouldn't automatically assume that Travis, Buckley and Rankin-Costello can't do the same job.
I suspect Travis will always be one step down in class from Reed, but we've seen too little of the other two yet to make a judgement.
Reed only going to another Championship club does demonstrate the gulf between our Division and the PL. No better illustration of that than Fulham, last season. Many of their fans say that Cairney - outstanding in their promotion year - couldn't quite cut it in the top grade.

[seventwo]

Yesterday the Rovers fans gave Reed a brilliant reception

[champs95]

He's everything we need. How was Johnson yesterday? I'm guessing he looked ok for 70 mins then tired? Without actually making any impact in those 70 mins?
And I'm guessing Rothwell ran and passed sideways and did absolutely nothing to hurt them at any point? Same with Downing when he came on? And I'm guessing Travis ran around on the edge of the game without really getting involved much? If only we get Reed back. Our midfield is poor.

[seventwo]

I didn't notice Johnson but had a **** seat. Arms and Rothwell were brilliant down the wing in the first half at least.
How many crosses did we make?

[AucklandRover]

Johnson did the simple things well, but - yes - he was less prominent in the final 20 minutes. I'd say he is the most rugged tackler we've had in midfield for some time.
Most of the passes from him and Travis were to the wide players, both of whom looked good on the ball, but were not accurate enough with the final pass.
Dack was much improved in the first half, but I'd still like to see him getting closer to the centre-forward. I know TM doesn't rate Rothwell as a central player, but I actually think he looks happier there.
This is what I meant on the Oldham thread about it taking a while to work out which combinations of our numerous forward players work best.
I think we will continue to see switches of formation between and within games. I have no problem with this, although I know I'm in a minority.
For example, there might be times when it is worth trying Graham and Gallagher alongside each other with just one player in the slot (Dack) and a genuine winger (Chapman) on the pitch.

[champs95]

Johnson did the simple things well, but - yes - he was less prominent in the final 20 minutes. I'd say he is the most rugged tackler we've had in midfield for some time.
Most of the passes from him and Travis were to the wide players, both of whom looked good on the ball, but were not accurate enough with the final pass.
Dack was much improved in the first half, but I'd still like to see him getting closer to the centre-forward. I know TM doesn't rate Rothwell as a central player, but I actually think he looks happier there.
This is what I meant on the Oldham thread about it taking a while to work out which combinations of our numerous forward players work best.
I think we will continue to see switches of formation between and within games. I have no problem with this, although I know I'm in a minority.
For example, there might be times when it is worth trying Graham and Gallagher alongside each other with just one player in the slot (Dack) and a genuine winger (Chapman) on the pitch.

The more the games pass, the more I am left questioning this wingers formation. That just isn't working.
Its worrying we don't have another style of playing.
I feel both Armstrong and (if Its Rothwell or Brereton or Gallagher if he is moved out there) are all wasted in this position. Samuel will get stuck out there once he is back. Its counter productive, they are easy to mark, and its too obvious what we will do.
If they can't play one creative player who can pass the ball forwards and cut defenders out, there is no point in playing with wingers. Its never really worked to any great degree, to be blindly sticking with it.
Centre midfield we have nobody who can pick a creative pass. They can pass 10 yard sideways to a winger who cant beat a man or supply a decent cross. But not in behind a full back to get the winger away fro his marker. Which is pointless anyway, as all the wingers we play can't cross a ball. Because they aren't wingers. So even when they get into good positions, they will often not beat the first defender on crossing.
Rothwell will only ever run with the ball, head down, into blind alleys. His final pass will always be found wanting. He will never beat men and get into a dangerous position. Its always going to be sideways, away from goal. And because he has no awareness as a footballer, he is never looking to provide a killer pass. I wonder if he has ever created one goal in his time with us? I cant think of one.
My concern if they quickly revert to playing DG, it is all too fast to just lose faith with a lad we have just spent £5m on. That is a striker, who thrives on chances. Our side, that severely lacks any creativity at all, isn't providing any service at all to a young lad who has just come in. No crosses, no quality, no nothing.
So if the answer is, to takje him out of the side and put DG in, I think I should be even more concerned.
As we will only ever do one thing. Hit 40 or 50 yard balls into him, not support him, as our other attacking players are stuck out on the wing doing nothing. DG playing means we just play an outdated style of football that doesn't work. And its worrying. Him playing, means we as a side, take the easy way out. Stop even trying to play football. And we start banging aimless balls to an old man. While he was effective in small pockets of last season, he is even older now. And if bringing him on last Sat was anything like Charlton, it was embarrassing. He looked way too old and slow, and never stood a chance of winning one ball, because our side is set up to have no creativity, and seemingly no idea what they are meant to be doing? Unless they are being ordered to not play football through the side, from defence into midfield, from mid into attack, and are being told to hoof the ball 40 yards to nobody. I heard it was the exact same thing on Sat. Within seconds of coming on, high aimless balls put up to him, being marked by 2 centre halves, and he has no support.
I feel Rothwell may offer more than Armstrong, I'm unsure if neither actually offer enough to be starting games.
I would suggest Brereton, but if he plays, he will only be stuck out on the wing where he can't get into a game, same with anyone put in that position. Apart from the only actual winger we have, who is never fit, or never picked or trusted.

It's hard to see what is going so wrong, and why? But I would say, we have problems in every area. Defence, midfield and attack. It needs sorting.

The one thing I am puzzeld about. Before I say this, I will be clear, Mulgrew would have made no difference to us going to Fulham and losing on sat. I feel we went down with no game plan. We are out of form (worrying as its only 2 games in) no attacking creation, no defensive stability. Lenihan? If we went down by train on Fri? Lenihan must have got injured on Thurs at the very latest? Maybe before that.
Which one of our backroom staff, or was it TM or Waggott, who sanctioned Mulgrew going to Wigan on loan? Bearing in mind Lenihan was injured. Nyambe was out, we are already weak in that area?

I feel its another big decision, that was not fully thought through, that come back to bite TM on his arse.
It appears some bad, inexplicable decisions are being made, and something is wrong at the club. On the out-set, to me, everything seems wrong. It may not be that bad, but I do fear for TM at this point. I don't see where the next won comes from, unless we get some luck.

[AucklandRover]

Champs - sorry, but that is an exercise in exaggeration.
We finished last season well, and we looked decent in the summer matches.
We have a lot of new signings and several very good U-23s to fit in. The first game was a huge let-down, but it was far more the result of half a dozen players being well below par than some tactical error on the manager's part. Against Fulham, we actually played some very good football.
You seem determined to find fault with everything at the moment - even the departure of Mulgrew, who you were absolutely panning a week ago!
On Saturday, there was, in fact, a very OBVIOUS game-plan: defend quite high, win the ball in central midfield, and supply the wide players quickly. That part worked but the quality of the numerous crosses just wasn't good enough.
To pretend we were aimless is simply a distortion.
And this business of the wide players. The fact is, we have a lot of attackers, but they can't all play as No. 9s at the same time. Actually, I DO think we are slightly overstocked up front, but when I said that last season, you argued that it's essential to have cover in depth.
You also seem to have written off Chapman completely, but couldn't it just be that they are being deliberately cautious about his return, because of the nature of his previous injuries? Same with Davenport. We might even see Gladwin on a pitch at some point!
Just saying: not everything has to be worst-case scenario!

[champs95]

Champs - sorry, but that is an exercise in exaggeration.
We finished last season well, and we looked decent in the summer matches.
We have a lot of new signings and several very good U-23s to fit in. The first game was a huge let-down, but it was far more the result of half a dozen players being well below par than some tactical error on the manager's part. Against Fulham, we actually played some very good football.
You seem determined to find fault with everything at the moment - even the departure of Mulgrew, who you were absolutely panning a week ago!
On Saturday, there was, in fact, a very OBVIOUS game-plan: defend quite high, win the ball in central midfield, and supply the wide players quickly. That part worked but the quality of the numerous crosses just wasn't good enough.
To pretend we were aimless is simply a distortion.
And this business of the wide players. The fact is, we have a lot of attackers, but they can't all play as No. 9s at the same time. Actually, I DO think we are slightly overstocked up front, but when I said that last season, you argued that it's essential to have cover in depth.
You also seem to have written off Chapman completely, but couldn't it just be that they are being deliberately cautious about his return, because of the nature of his previous injuries? Same with Davenport. We might even see Gladwin on a pitch at some point!
Just saying: not everything has to be worst-case scenario!

We do need strength in depth. Every side needs this. The less you have, the more you will struggle. I feel we are over stocked in some area's and not so much in others.
I am merley saying what I see in front of me. I am not going to spend the season arguing over every small thing I say. We sat with the worst record after a few games. That will change, but for now I don't feel things are going well. Because they aren't. I am not writing Chapman off, you seem to be doing it again. I have asked the question, where is he? Why has he played only 12 mins since we resigned him 8 months ago?
I want to see him play personally. I was under the impression when you buy a player, you end up seeing him play. But you are right, the fact he never plays is all fine and dandy. Maybe we just bubble wrap him and just never bother playing him? That will protect him. He will never play football, which is his profession. But he will remain protected.

That's fine we went with a game-plan. We play Boro next who haven't won yet either. So we can assess how well the game plan is then? Which will improve at somepoint.

You have missed my point about the way we have approached games. I'm not saying we have just banged long balls up for 90 mins. We do that when DG comes on. I heard we did it on Sat as soon as he came on. We deffo did that vrs Charlton. 2 games in, and all I am doing is wondering what we spent pre-season doing? As I feel its regressing, bringing an ageing DG on, and just start hitting high aimless balls to. You will insist we aren't doing that. I am saying we are.