Ot: Hs2

[Oxford_pie]

HS2 is a criminally bad vanity project, with pie in the sky benefits. No major company is going to move to Crewe because the train journey to London is only 50 minutes now.

The main benefit of the project is capacity, not getting to a particular city a bit faster. All the high-speed trains to London get to go on their own dedicated line which frees up local lines for more local services. Anyone who knows about trains (not me) sees this project as 'a good thing'.

[BigFatPie]

I’m no expert on transport infrastructure but If the nutters in charge had plans to cancel HS2 to spend the money on a northern cross rail line between Hull and Liverpool, that’d be good.

They haven’t though, they’ll use any money saved to mitigate the effects of their moronic Brexit.

[Skatorna]

The main benefit of the project is capacity, not getting to a particular city a bit faster. All the high-speed trains to London get to go on their own dedicated line which frees up local lines for more local services. Anyone who knows about trains (not me) sees this project as 'a good thing'.

Yes, what a brilliant idea to increase the number of tax payer funded empty seats on trains across the UK.

Rail travel is dying. It's an upper middle class pursuit. Ticket sales are declining, passenger satisfaction is down and trust in the operators is down. It's what happens when you create a regulated monopoly.

That and of course the whole advertising campaign up here in the North (where my friends have been forced out of their homes to make way for the tracks) is around "igniting the Northern Powerhouse" - which is based around quick access between the Northern cities and London.

[MagpieMike]

The main benefit of the project is capacity, not getting to a particular city a bit faster. All the high-speed trains to London get to go on their own dedicated line which frees up local lines for more local services. Anyone who knows about trains (not me) sees this project as 'a good thing'.

This. The problem is line capacity, not speed - we don't have enough lines to meet current, never mind future demand. Trains are cleaner and more environmentally friendly than cars or lorries, so its better to invest in rail than road.

The argument about spending - i.e. what else we could do with the money, overlooks the corresponding benefits. - Much of the money spent on construction goes to UK contractors, and into UK wage packets. Infrastructure spend is good for the economy. If we had a Labour Government we would probably have more infrastucture spend. The Tories have underspent on railways every time they have been in Government since the Thatcher era.

If you compare with Spain for example - a country I know well, they have an advanced network of high speed train routes. Much ahead of our aging Victorian rail network.

[MagpieMike]

Yes, what a brilliant idea to increase the number of tax payer funded empty seats on trains across the UK.

Rail travel is dying. It's an upper middle class pursuit. Ticket sales are declining, passenger satisfaction is down and trust in the operators is down. It's what happens when you create a regulated monopoly.

That and of course the whole advertising campaign up here in the North (where my friends have been forced out of their homes to make way for the tracks) is around "igniting the Northern Powerhouse" - which is based around quick access between the Northern cities and London.

Not the case. Rail use is increasing, the rail operators want to run more frequent and longer trains. It isn't a monopoly in the way that most state run systems are - the current franchises are a Tory created mess. The rail network (i.e. the track and infrastucture) is only in public ownership because privatising it didn't work.

Better rail is also better for road users - less road congestion.

[Skatorna]

It dropped last year by nearly 2% and recovered that ground this year; and has remained mostly stangnant around that mark for nearly 10 years. Season ticket sales are down nearly 10 percent. It's wrong that the taxes of people struggling to make ends meet are subsidising London to Edinburgh trips for a business meeting, while they themselves can't afford a train ticket - with the government completely complicit in it.

I agree, the franchise system is a mess. I'm not convinced that formally nationalising it will make it any better; but having a target revenue system that you know the government will bail you out of if you fail to reach it is utter insanity and will breed poor customer service, high prices and overall mediocrity. The only people you have to win over the are people who award the contracts, not the customer.

It certainly can work with privatisation, Japan is a testimony to that.

[crazyfists]

Sorry Magpie Mike but up here where I live the train prices are the major sticking point. I read a comment on the BBC story yesterday that from Newcastle to London by train off peak is about £140, on peak £340 and if you book months on advance about £100. You expect people to pay this instead of say £50 in petrol? It's about time people from down south actually asked people on the North how they feel not tell us how we should be feeling. The whole thing is a joke, who cares you can get more trains to London quicker, like I said big ****ing whoop. Most business is done online and over the phone anyway, why would being able to get to London easier make the North a 'powerhouse' for business? It's bull****.

[SwalePie]

Sorry Magpie Mike but up here where I live the train prices are the major sticking point. I read a comment on the BBC story yesterday that from Newcastle to London by train off peak is about £140, on peak £340 and if you book months on advance about £100. You expect people to pay this instead of say £50 in petrol? It's about time people from down south actually asked people on the North how they feel not tell us how we should be feeling. The whole thing is a joke, who cares you can get more trains to London quicker, like I said big ****ing whoop. Most business is done online and over the phone anyway, why would being able to get to London easier make the North a 'powerhouse' for business? It's bull****.

I needed to go to Kirkcaldy in Scotland on Monday and looked at train prices from Grantham. The best price I could find was £135 one way and a little more return, but the times didn't work for me.. Bonkers. As you say, if it's cheaper for one person in a car than to use the train people will use the car. I went there and back in the car for about £75 of fuel.

[Oldstripy]

Scrap it and use some of the money to electrify the Midland main line.

[sidders]

Ah the voice of the snowflake baby boomer generation speaks and as per usual he speaks utter *******x. No clue, no brain, utter idiot.

His comment (as is usually the case) is moronic, but the man is not. He mistakenly thinks his smart ass comments win the day especially when they wind people up.
He has run a successful business and given generously to Notts so he really isn't a moron.