Ot: Hs2

[Mapperleypie]

I can't see them scrapping HS2. I am extraordinarily cynical of Johnson and this current government and can see this current 'review' being nothing more than a stalling tactic until after any snap election.

Johnson likes to appear to be all things to all people and with this stance can appease many middle-England wavering voters. He struggles badly when his bluster has to occasionally meet with reality - see London Garden Bridge, Boris Airport and of course Brexit.

[MagpieMike]

Sorry Magpie Mike but up here where I live the train prices are the major sticking point. I read a comment on the BBC story yesterday that from Newcastle to London by train off peak is about £140, on peak £340 and if you book months on advance about £100. You expect people to pay this instead of say £50 in petrol? It's about time people from down south actually asked people on the North how they feel not tell us how we should be feeling. The whole thing is a joke, who cares you can get more trains to London quicker, like I said big ****ing whoop. Most business is done online and over the phone anyway, why would being able to get to London easier make the North a 'powerhouse' for business? It's bull****.

I didn't comment on prices. i completely agree with you. Rail prices are ridiculously high. When I worked for a Midlands Charity in the late 90s I occasionally had to go to meetings in London. Even then it was cheaper as a single occupant to drive than get the train. The way to combat high prices is to have a properly nationalised rail network, like most of the rest of Europe. (EU and none EU before anyone goes into that argument).

[MagpieMike]

Scrap it and use some of the money to electrify the Midland main line.

Or better, do both. The Midland mainline has lacked investment for years. My understanding from someone who works in the industry is that they are currently electrifying north of Bedford, but its a long way from reaching us.

[Old_pie]

Or better, do both. The Midland mainline has lacked investment for years. My understanding from someone who works in the industry is that they are currently electrifying north of Bedford, but its a long way from reaching us.

My understanding is that the tunnel just south of the River Trent near the power station is too low to accommodate the overhead cables and pantograph and there are possibly other locations similarly restricted which end making the cost astronomical.

[MagpieMike]

My understanding is that the tunnel just south of the River Trent near the power station is too low to accommodate the overhead cables and pantograph and there are possibly other locations similarly restricted which end making the cost astronomical.

That makes sense.

[MAD_MAGPIE]

This. The problem is line capacity, not speed - we don't have enough lines to meet current, never mind future demand. Trains are cleaner and more environmentally friendly than cars or lorries, so its better to invest in rail than road.

The argument about spending - i.e. what else we could do with the money, overlooks the corresponding benefits. - Much of the money spent on construction goes to UK contractors, and into UK wage packets. Infrastructure spend is good for the economy. If we had a Labour Government we would probably have more infrastucture spend. The Tories have underspent on railways every time they have been in Government since the Thatcher era.

If you compare with Spain for example - a country I know well, they have an advanced network of high speed train routes. Much ahead of our aging Victorian rail network.

I absolutely agree. Our rail infrastructure has suffered from a chronic lack of investment for decades which has now left us behind some developed countries in Europe and around the world. I think both Labour and the Conservative governments are guilty of lack of investment.

Take for example Japan, they have had high speed rail trains for years and have their bullet trains. Closer to home in Europe if you travel to Italy you will find Double Decker trains and a high speed rail network up and down the country.

The Euro-star had to limit it's speed in the UK which I believe was due to the infrastructure whereas in Europe it could travel at higher speeds. I don't know if this is still the case today.

Our aging Victorian Rail Network is becoming more and more stretched as populations in towns and cities increases and we only have a certain amount of lines and certain sized trains to carry them.

We can't have any high speed trains and we can't have any double decker trains on our rail network at present.

[jackal2]

So I decide to extend my house with a garage, above it a bedroom and an extension to the kitchen and living room, but halfway through the work I discover that I haven't done my homework properly and it's not going to give me a value for money return. So I write off the money I've spent and abort the project, telling the builder to go home, leaving me with an environmental disaster.
When he was asked by his interviewer whether it would be a waste of the £7 billion spent so far if they call the whole thing off, Grant Shapps said 'I wouldn't put it like that ... ' Well, i bloody would.
Why are we asking questions NOW that should have been asked at the beginning? What would this money have done for the NHS?
It was scandalous, they said, that it would cost £39 billion to exit the EU, yet this project which has the mind-numbing aim to get commuters to their destination quicker is already grossing £78 billion and apparently destined to go over the 100.
I thought Tories were supposed to be good with money

Remember at school when you had an important but essentially boring and quite difficult bit of homework to do, and your brain was easily distracted by doing anything that seemed more exciting even though it didn't have any intrinsic value. HS2 is that distraction. There are some essentially mundane but very beneficial things that could be done to improve train services and other transport provision in this country at nowhere near this cost and for much greater reward, but modern day politicians and civil servants love a window-dressing vanity project!

[Elite_Pie]

His comment (as is usually the case) is moronic, but the man is not. He mistakenly thinks his smart ass comments win the day especially when they wind people up.
He has run a successful business and given generously to Notts so he really isn't a moron.

Maybe not a moron, but I somehow doubt that he will be on the MENSA mailing list. He actually made his first attempt at political debate the other day with a post that ran to a record six lines instead of his usual one. He was bemoaning the soft approach to criminals, but when it was pointed out that his beloved Tory party were to blame after nearly a decade in power he quickly left the debate!

[Elite_Pie]

Sorry Magpie Mike but up here where I live the train prices are the major sticking point. I read a comment on the BBC story yesterday that from Newcastle to London by train off peak is about £140, on peak £340 and if you book months on advance about £100.

I've barely used a train since the 70s when the supporters club used to organise them to all away games, but those prices are outrageous. I've flown to Portugal for £9.99 each way before, and even today I can book a return flight to there or Menorca for a total price of £42.

[sidders]

Would like to have been there when you were barely using a train, Elite. In a way, that makes you no better than our ex-owner.