O/T:- Who needs Parliament?

[dam617]

I know, I've been laughing at him spouting his Sunreader politics with his new woolly friends!

I'm not in denial that there are corrupt EU politicians. I just think they are preferable to the corrupt Tory politicians we have now.

What does PSML mean?

Here's a transcript of what he said.



'We have seen in the meetings with her Chief Of Staff, from day one.

He said "no,no,no,we're not going to change our strategy.

We are going to deliver in the second vote because we are going to buy some Labour votes.

We are going to buy some hard Brexiteers.

He (Robbins) outlined , I think, more than a month ago now, in detail, what was the strategy to build up a majority'.


Your reaction is 'meh, so what, everybody does it'??

You must REALLY want to retire in Spain.

[TheBlackHorse]

... the laugh of it all is that this remoaner hysteria is over-emphasised by the establishment traitors who mostly live in the south-east swamp. The fact that much of the imported goods they (probably) use passes through Dover-Calais makes me smile at the thought of their possible suffering. Only 8% of UK trade passes via that route; but mustn't laugh at others' misfortune ...

[Elite_Pie]

Here's a transcript of what he said.



'We have seen in the meetings with her Chief Of Staff, from day one.

He said "no,no,no,we're not going to change our strategy.

We are going to deliver in the second vote because we are going to buy some Labour votes.

We are going to buy some hard Brexiteers.

He (Robbins) outlined , I think, more than a month ago now, in detail, what was the strategy to build up a majority'.


Your reaction is 'meh, so what, everybody does it'??

You must REALLY want to retire in Spain.

Spain holds no appeal for me unless it's a couple of weeks holiday. I retired early 10 years ago and even though I could live anywhere, I'm a true Brit and would never want to live anywhere but Nottingham, England.

[Notsohumblepie]

... the laugh of it all is that this remoaner hysteria is over-emphasised by the establishment traitors who mostly live in the south-east swamp. The fact that much of the imported goods they (probably) use passes through Dover-Calais makes me smile at the thought of their possible suffering. Only 8% of UK trade passes via that route; but mustn't laugh at others' misfortune ...

Apparently it could adversely affect the availability of Chateaubriand in Islington.

" More Jellied Eels Jeremy ? No Thank you Emily , God knows how the plebs can eat that crap, I'll just stick with the Chargrilled Langoustine until something better gets through"

[seriouspie]

True, I must have a look at this Yellowhammer document the government have produced on the possible effects of a no deal Brexit.

I'm sure it will predict a thriving economy, lower unemployment and much shorter NHS waiting lists.

That's not the objective of any such assessment EP. The object is to nullify or make easier any foreseeable problems that may be encountered. (1) Our economy is still not too bad, the pound against the dollar and Euro has improved whilst the rest of the EU is struggling especially Germany which is teetering on the edge of recession. (2) Unemployment more than reasonably low and (3) the NHS is getting a huge cash injection over the next three years. Undoubtedly overdue but true whichever way you look at it.

Of course the EU is wetting itself if we leave, look at the money we throw at it. I also seem to have heard that the UK's wealth alone is more than the combined wealth of 22 of the EU smaller states put together. You wouldn't I suspect have been around Nottingham during the war when Meadow Lane and Sneinton were bombed with a heavy life loss, sitting in a damp corrugated tin shelter in the middle of the night scared to death with your mum saying it would be alright. I know ....I know, it was years ago you will screech, so what the hell. Well I'll tell you pal. Be they rich or poor (which most of us were) with little food or cash back then, everybody got stuck in to work for the future. Many lasses worked manually at the Gun Factory and on the land and many were widowed early as Dad's lost their lives fighting for Britain. When we moved to Burton Joyce I enjoyed fishing the Trent, rabbiting in the woods and joining the scouts. Ooooh I forgot ........ when I started secondary school I was one of those schoolboys wearing a peaked cap cycling down leafy lanes to watch village cricket ... you once mentioned. It didn't matter whether you went to an independent, secondary modern or the Nottingham boys High School, we were all on the same level regarding recreation, ordinary lads but with a belief in our country instilled in us by the aftermath of war. Do I believe in war ....certainly not if it can be avoided - a terrible thing - but fight if you are being threatened. So you go believing we are better off tied to the EU, you're entitled to but more than a million didn't vote that way. I'll also say that if the vote had been remain I would have accepted it with disappointment, but that would have been it as far as I was concerned. The fact we have Corbyn as leader of the opposition along with his stooges doesn't bother me either. If he and his front bench class warriors get booted out and replaced with a moderate Labour opposition, then I would be concerned as his current rabble of Illiterates will never come to power. Want £20 on it?

You may opine that being old and reminiscing about the old days is worthless but without experiences gained in life you can't make the future happen. No personal offence or prejudice in this narrative by the way, at least you support Notts so you can't be all that bad!

[BigFatPie]

Thank you.



'Project Fear', as the name implies, was an exaggeration of the truth. Not entirely without validity, but some claims were certainly speculative and overblown. To be fair, the same could be said of some Vote Leave claims. You get hyperbole in most elections and referenda, so it's up to the voters to decide what they believe and what they don't.

I've said several times on here that anyone who voted Leave without appreciating that there would be a significant period of disruption would have been very naïve. It doesn't take great powers of deduction to realise that if you leave a system you've been locked into for several decades, there will be a period of turbulence. However, you would have had to be equally naïve to believe all of forecasts of doom put out by Cameron's Government at the public's expense.



Yes I've heard the semantic arguments going on between Michael Gove and Rosamund Urwin. The title of the document as published refers to 'Reasonable Worst Case Planning Assumptions', whereas 'Baseline' is open to interpretation and can mean 'average' or 'lowest' depending on the context, so people can make their own minds up what they believe.

In my view, civil servants tend to err on the side of caution when they predict need and demand, to ensure they have an ample budget to cater for the worst case scenario (and a portion of bureaucratic incompetence). It's only public money after all, so they may as well estimate for a bit too much contingency rather than too little. The only time I've known civil servants underestimate a budget requirement is when they're trying to convince their political masters to sign off a public infrastructure vanity project, after which the cost usually skyrockets!



Most deaths are due to a range of factors so it will probably be difficult to measure, if a shortage occurs at all. Put it this way, if we can aim for a figure lower than the deaths caused by NHS negligence, including the misuse or failure to administer available medicines, then I wouldn't say it's acceptable but it would no doubt be fewer.

So when the Leave campaign said things like there were no downsides to Brexit only upsides and getting a great deal would be the easiest thing in human history they knew they were lying. If you’ve got any examples of where they warned about this disruption that you reckon everyone knew about please link to it.

Its not ‘semantIcs’ to say the Yellowhammer documents were renamed to mislead the public, it’s actual fact. Rosamund Urwin has confirmed this. If there are better scenarios, why hasn’t the government released them?

I think yours and others anti -EU mania has made you lose your minds. There are no levels of deaths, food shortages, or raised risk of rioting that make what are doing to ourselves worthwhile. Experts in all these fields have made it clear what potentially could happen, for absolutely no good reason.

[Elite_Pie]

That's not the objective of any such assessment EP. The object is to nullify or make easier any foreseeable problems that may be encountered. (1) Our economy is still not too bad, the pound against the dollar and Euro has improved whilst the rest of the EU is struggling especially Germany which is teetering on the edge of recession. (2) Unemployment more than reasonably low and (3) the NHS is getting a huge cash injection over the next three years. Undoubtedly overdue but true whichever way you look at it.

Of course the EU is wetting itself if we leave, look at the money we throw at it. I also seem to have heard that the UK's wealth alone is more than the combined wealth of 22 of the EU smaller states put together. You wouldn't I suspect have been around Nottingham during the war when Meadow Lane and Sneinton were bombed with a heavy life loss, sitting in a damp corrugated tin shelter in the middle of the night scared to death with your mum saying it would be alright. I know ....I know, it was years ago you will screech, so what the hell. Well I'll tell you pal. Be they rich or poor (which most of us were) with little food or cash back then, everybody got stuck in to work for the future. Many lasses worked manually at the Gun Factory and on the land and many were widowed early as Dad's lost their lives fighting for Britain. When we moved to Burton Joyce I enjoyed fishing the Trent, rabbiting in the woods and joining the scouts. Ooooh I forgot ........ when I started secondary school I was one of those schoolboys wearing a peaked cap cycling down leafy lanes to watch village cricket ... you once mentioned. It didn't matter whether you went to an independent, secondary modern or the Nottingham boys High School, we were all on the same level regarding recreation, ordinary lads but with a belief in our country instilled in us by the aftermath of war. Do I believe in war ....certainly not if it can be avoided - a terrible thing - but fight if you are being threatened. So you go believing we are better off tied to the EU, you're entitled to but more than a million didn't vote that way. I'll also say that if the vote had been remain I would have accepted it with disappointment, but that would have been it as far as I was concerned. The fact we have Corbyn as leader of the opposition along with his stooges doesn't bother me either. If he and his front bench class warriors get booted out and replaced with a moderate Labour opposition, then I would be concerned as his current rabble of Illiterates will never come to power. Want £20 on it?

You may opine that being old and reminiscing about the old days is worthless but without experiences gained in life you can't make the future happen. No personal offence or prejudice in this narrative by the way, at least you support Notts so you can't be all that bad!

Nice story. It seems we are both proud Brits, but maybe proud in different ways. I wonder if you would answer me this question - if the Supreme Court rules that Boris Johnson has deliberately and knowingly lied to Her Majesty (I suspect they'll bottle it), would you join me in demanding that he is removed from office?

[seriouspie]

Spain holds no appeal for me unless it's a couple of weeks holiday. I retired early 10 years ago and even though I could live anywhere, I'm a true Brit and would never want to live anywhere but Nottingham, England.

If you can live anywhere I can possibly tempt you with a nice two year old mansion in the Derby Tory stronghold of Quarndon (although Cloughie lived there) Neighbours that own racehorses which will interest you and all mod cons to boot. Open fields to the front and music of your choice played in any room you choose simply by using your 'phone. But if you prefer Broxta then I understand your loyalty to your roots. A snip at £1.4m and you'd be able to walk the leafy lanes with your dog like the true British gent you are.

[seriouspie]

Nice story. It seems we are both proud Brits, but maybe proud in different ways. I wonder if you would answer me this question - if the Supreme Court rules that Boris Johnson has deliberately and knowingly lied to Her Majesty (I suspect they'll bottle it), would you join me in demanding that he is removed from office?

Most certainly I would if convicted of telling lies as the law must be upheld although I believe the relevent question is "did he mislead the Queen" in his motives to ask for the closure of parliament, not that he lied to her. Whatever the forthcoming ruling is I would abide with it and if the word "Lie" is part of that ruling I would support you. "Bottling it" you say concerning the Supreme Court's ruling is not how I would word it. For the life of me I cannot see Boris deliberately telling porkies to the Queen whatever his future motives may be. Simply he used a legal loophole to bide more time regarding the EU fracas as well as legitimately proroguing. Frankly If he just asked her Majesty's permission to prorogue Parliament and she grants it, then for the life of me I can't see the point of bringing up all this media hysteria about him telling lies. Remember this as well EP. There is nobody more experienced than our Queen in sticking up for Britain ......... she lived through it as I detailed in my recent post. We will wait and see.

[bridpie78]

Nice story. It seems we are both proud Brits, but maybe proud in different ways. I wonder if you would answer me this question - if the Supreme Court rules that Boris Johnson has deliberately and knowingly lied to Her Majesty (I suspect they'll bottle it), would you join me in demanding that he is removed from office?

I don't think the supreme court will find him guilty of anything either

I also don't think that too many leavers care much about how he got the job done,just that he did. the whole charade of speaking to the queen and asking for permission is nothing but an outdated tradition anyway.

There are some people that are trying to label leavers as fist pumping string vest wearing brits that are seen sticking it to them foreigners over there. god save the queen!! we really aren't, in general the posts on this thread have given a good representation of what i've seen out and about in the last 3 years, intelligent people who want to see what it looks like on the other side of the fence,with a healthy dose of suspicion towards the malevolent unseen puppet masters in brussels, it started with just a gut feeling and little information but as more information has become available it has been absorbed and digested and still they are in the leave camp, we can't all be thick and not know that we're driving the country off a cliff, can we?

The situation with boris 'allegedly' lying to the queen is a bit of a non story, logical,rational people will see it as using the system to get done what needed to be done, much like the opposition taking advantage of the rules of parliament to pile pressure on Boris once he lost his majority, it's just using the existing rules to best advantage. which politicians haven't lied in their time? that would be a short list!

These same logical, rational people know why he pro-rogued, it was about putting an end to the incessant blocking and delaying tactics from the remainers who are now in their death throes and are grasping at any little thing they can to try to keep us in for longer, they have had enough time and it needed to be put to an end.
We all know why he did it and we all know why he cannot say that is why he did it, we also know why JC called for elections and then when offered one (twice) he turned them down, its all just a big game and no amount of shock horror headlines about lying to the queen are going to make this whole sorry mess end any other way than the UK leaving the EU.

Out of interest did you demand Blair was removed from office when it became clear that he was lying,warmongering scumbag? i would have joined you in that.