O/T Democracy

[Exiletyke]

Just sounding bullish doesn't make you right BL. You are simply wrong. The referendum was not legally binding. The government did tell us that they would implement the result but they were wrong to do that as we are a parliamentary democracy and any such decisions, any referendum, as set out in our law, must first pass through parliament, our elected representatives, to become law. The High Court ruled.

This is to stop a government suddenly putting a populist vote to the people (hanging for example, or hiking super taxes), getting it through in a way that it couldn't through parliamentary means. That's why its set up that way and that's why it's important that this is challenged.

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-r...SAAEgIoyvD_BwE

Then why did almost 500 MP's vote to trigger Article 50. Democratically I might add
Perhaps they didn't know what they were doing

[Exiletyke]

He'll still be policing us for sure, don't be fooled by this.

"limited"

[ragingpup]

Then why did almost 500 MP's vote to trigger Article 50. Democratically I might add
Perhaps they didn't know what they were doing

I don't have a problem with that Ex, but MPs still have the right to follow information over time, listen to constituents across the country and move to act to see fit. They have already voted heavily against leaving without a deal. They are fully entitled to sit, debate and seek to make new legislation to respond to developments from the last 3 years since triggering article 50. To stop our democratically elected representatives doing this by shutting down parliament is a scary move that sets precedent that we all should be afraid of.

I understand the anger of the people who were promised by the government that they would implement the vote but that doesn't make that government statement any more legal in our parliamentary system and it doesn't stop MPs scrutinising, debating and acting as we have voted them to do so until the final resolution is passed.

[Exiletyke]

The truth is rag that Parliament is very largely a remain Parliament & stopping brexit is their true motive All the rest is merely a smokescreen wrapped up to look like concern
BTW my friends call me Ziles

[ragingpup]

The truth is rag that Parliament is very largely a remain Parliament & stopping brexit is their true motive All the rest is merely a smokescreen wrapped up to look like concern
BTW my friends call me Ziles

I don't think that quite right. If the ERG and No Dealers had supported the WA it would have got through regardless of the Labour Party stance? Remember that Revoking the referendum decision was massively defeated by MPs also. How does that square with a so called 'Remainer parliament'?

Looks to me that parliament is split evenly 3 ways - Remain, Leave with Deal and No Dealers for whom no deal is possible, and even if the WA dropped the backstop would still block the WA. This even split pretty much represents the national population.

What I resent about Johnson's actions is that he is trying to force a No Deal on behalf of the hard line of his party and the only way he can do this is by shutting parliament, and the other two thirds, down. There is no mandate for No Deal in parliament or country, therefore the MPs have every right to oppose it and should be allowed their voice.

I emphasise that there were many people on the march on Saturday who voted to Leave, but resent the actions of the government.

I suspect that Johnson knows as well as we do that even if get a solution to the backstop, the WA would still be blocked, that it still would not be good enough for the third of the country that will only accept a No Deal break. So, whilst it is frustrating that parliament have yet to agree a solution, the only way forward is through further parliamentary negotiation until a compromise is finally found. Might take a long time but the WA wasn't a million miles away from getting through. Maybe solving the backstop is the only solution, but it continues to be seen (leaked government report today) that there is no tech available at the moment. Maybe there can be a time limit on there that both sides can agree to and this might be enough to get it over the line, but can you see the ERG getting behind it still? Personally I would like Labour to back it now to draw an end to it that way, but don't think the ERG will back it.

[Stovicmiller]

The truth is rag that Parliament is very largely a remain Parliament & stopping brexit is their true motive All the rest is merely a smokescreen wrapped up to look like concern
BTW my friends call me Ziles

got to agree with you bout parliament being largely remain. Plus like you say they have done their hardest to reverse the referendum result. ****ers the lot of them.

[WanChaiMiller]

Hi raging. I'm just a bit fed up of the whole thing. Does it do any good for Biggie, WanChai and you to slog it out in a manner reminiscent of a group of street drinkers fighting over the last bottle of White Lightning (with Roly running around your ankles like an over excited Jack Russell)?

Yet you continue posting and probably contributed more words than anyone.

I guess at your high browed level of debate its over a nice red in the local bistro (do distros still exist). The cheese is a simple delight.

[Pattylallacks2]

Yet you continue posting and probably contributed more words than anyone.

I guess at your high browed level of debate its over a nice red in the local bistro (do distros still exist). The cheese is a simple delight.

No distros have largely been bestroyed

[BigLadonOS]

Just sounding bullish doesn't make you right BL. You are simply wrong. The referendum was not legally binding. The government did tell us that they would implement the result but they were wrong to do that as we are a parliamentary democracy and any such decisions, any referendum, as set out in our law, must first pass through parliament, our elected representatives, to become law. The High Court ruled.

This is to stop a government suddenly putting a populist vote to the people (hanging for example, or hiking super taxes), getting it through in a way that it couldn't through parliamentary means. That's why its set up that way and that's why it's important that this is challenged.

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-r...SAAEgIoyvD_BwE

Yes pup you are correct in that by the law of the courts it was not technically a law but it became an unwritten law much like our constitution and if our constitution is not wrote down then how can anything be lawful at all?

Our constitution is built on loads of little bills that become law and still do to this day. It does not exist in any documented format at all.

The British constitution primarily draws from four sources: statute law (laws passed by Parliament), common law (laws established through court rulings), parliamentary conventions, and works of authority.

Both the houses of Parliament and commons voted that the result would be followed no matter how it went so therefore under our unwritten constitution it should have become a full fledged law but because the people who should have put this in to law are remoaners they did not do that. So I will say once again that the people who are trying to stop us from leaving the EU are the worst antidemocratic scum of the earth.

[rolymiller]

PMSL


What happens if PM can't secure general election support?

Norman Smith

Assistant political editor

No 10 has warned the prime minister would push for a general election on 14 October if MPs successfully vote to block a no-deal Brexit.

But to trigger an election Boris Johnson would need the backing of two-thirds of MPs - including some opposition MPs.

BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith says there is a growing indication Labour would not support Mr Johnson's attempts to call an early general election because they fear he could then delay the polling date until after the UK has left the EU without a deal.

So what would be Mr Johnson's options then?

Firstly he could table a motion of no confidence in his own government to trigger an election. This avenue only requires a simple majority but there is still no guarantee it would get the required support.


So Boris could table a motion of no confidence in his own govt? You can't make it up can you? So he will basically be saying to the country if he did this ,what we have all known for a long time, that this govt is wa nk!

And yet Boris is probably stupid enough to do it!




I'm not a Blair fan but I think that it could be a trap and now is not the time for a GE if MPS want to fight against a no deal Brexit.


Has politics ever been so entertaining?