pride park sale

[ramAnag]

You are wrong, sorry. The sale was quite properly (timing wise) reflected in 30-06-2018 accounts. It was not made public until the accounts were made public on or around 31-03-2019.

The paper profit thus dragged our 3 year rolling loss back within FFP, whereas it would not have been but for the paper profit.

The paper profit was a direct result of the valuation "paid" by an insider who simply offset a deemed value against amounts already owed to him.

Had the ground been sold to an unconnected party, it's doubtful that the EFL could object. But it wasn't and the attributed value is thus under scrutiny. Its up to MM and jDCFC to justify it. Good luck to them

Okay...I accept it’s your area of expertise.

Are we to take it from your final two sentences that you’re not optimistic?

[Geoff Parkstone]

I find it hard to understand an 80m valuation for an asset generating a 1m cash inflow / leaseback from the primary tenant. But who knows what else in terms of cash flow comes in for the ownership to support a, prima face, seemingly above market valuation.

[MadAmster]

The charge is not about the sale of the ground. The charge is that DCFC exceeded the permitted losses over the 3 years ending June 30th 2018 by some £8M.

That loss despite the sale of the ground on June 28th of 2018.

Has the club got its sums wrong? Should Mel have paid £90M and shown a £2M profit over that 3 year period?

The only other thing I can think of is that the EFL might have decided the stadium was worth less and have factored their own value into the figures used.

So, Mel's mistake or EFL jiggery pokery? Those seem to be the only 2 options to me.

[ramAnag]

The charge is not about the sale of the ground. The charge is that DCFC exceeded the permitted losses over the 3 years ending June 30th 2018 by some £8M.

That loss despite the sale of the ground on June 28th of 2018.

Has the club got its sums wrong? Should Mel have paid £90M and shown a £2M profit over that 3 year period?

The only other thing I can think of is that the EFL might have decided the stadium was worth less and have factored their own value into the figures used.

So, Mel's mistake or EFL jiggery pokery? Those seem to be the only 2 options to me.

Well I, for one, am now totally confused. Is this, or is it not, about the sale/valuation of the stadium?

Sincerely hope MM hasn’t got the ‘sums wrong’.
The usual suspects are queuing up to lambaste an owner who, imo, has always done his best for Derby County.
Has he made mistakes? Undoubtedly...who hasn’t?
Has he set out with the intention of deliberate wrongdoing? I hope and continue to believe that he hasn’t.

A third question might be...is the EFL’s timing, right in the middle of the January window, at all suspicious?
Again, imo and without wishing to begin another ‘conspiracy theory’, it is just about as destabilising as it could possibly be from the point of view of us trying to add to and develop the squad.

Still, at least if we do face relegation we’ve already got a proven League One striker...even if he does seem to be permanently injured.

[mistaram]

Well I, for one, am now totally confused. Is this, or is it not, about the sale/valuation of the stadium?

Sincerely hope MM hasn’t got the ‘sums wrong’.
The usual suspects are queuing up to lambaste an owner who, imo, has always done his best for Derby County.
Has he made mistakes? Undoubtedly...who hasn’t?
Has he set out with the intention of deliberate wrongdoing? I hope and continue to believe that he hasn’t.

A third question might be...is the EFL’s timing, right in the middle of the January window, at all suspicious?
Again, imo and without wishing to begin another ‘conspiracy theory’, it is just about as destabilising as it could possibly be from the point of view of us trying to add to and develop the squad.

Still, at least if we do face relegation we’ve already got a proven League One striker...even if he does seem to be permanently injured.

RA I'm as confused as you are and agree Mel has always done his best for dcfc. Those who have never made a mistake have never done anything in my eyes . When you run a business there are always things you have to pass on to people with superior knowledge. If you think back to October two directors resigned to make way for any new investors . One of them was John Williams Chairman of Geldards LLP who on leaving said When I joined the company at a time of change for the club It was to help ensure Strong corporate governance and assist on strategic direction . He was obviously there when the stadium was sold and I would be surprised if a top legal expert would have allowed anything untoward to happen

[MadAmster]

Well I, for one, am now totally confused. Is this, or is it not, about the sale/valuation of the stadium?

The sale/valuation is almost certainly an integral part of the investigation. What we don't know is how the parties arrived at their figures.

Derby appear to believe, and always have, that the £80M would put them inside FFP boundaries. The sale was obviously done with FFP issues in mind. Did they miscalculate? We shall know once the Commission publishes its findings.

Have the EFL rejigged figures provided by DCFC to reflect the EFL valuation? Again we shall know once the Commission publishes its findings.

Again, to find out what it's about, you need to look at what DCFC has been charged with....... and that is that DCFC exceeded the permitted losses over the 3 years ending June 30th 2018 by some £8M.

That doesn't mention the sale/valuation of the ground but that issue will be part of the equation. I see just 3 possibilities here.

1. The EFL has downgraded the value of the ground and, as a result of that downgrading, we fall foul of FFP by £8M
2. DCFC made a mistake in its calculations
3. The EFL made a mistake in its calculations

Which of the 3 it is.......... we have to wait for the Commission......

[Trickytreesreds]

Well I, for one, am now totally confused. Is this, or is it not, about the sale/valuation of the stadium?

Sincerely hope MM hasn’t got the ‘sums wrong’.
The usual suspects are queuing up to lambaste an owner who, imo, has always done his best for Derby County.
Has he made mistakes? Undoubtedly...who hasn’t?
Has he set out with the intention of deliberate wrongdoing? I hope and continue to believe that he hasn’t.

A third question might be...is the EFL’s timing, right in the middle of the January window, at all suspicious?
Again, imo and without wishing to begin another ‘conspiracy theory’, it is just about as destabilising as it could possibly be from the point of view of us trying to add to and develop the squad.

Still, at least if we do face relegation we’ve already got a proven League One striker...even if he does seem to be permanently injured.

You’re reading too much into it with timing. I told you weeks ago how serious this was. These investigations have been going on before the season started as well I don’t think it will even effect this window. However it could be devastating. It could be as many as 15-20 points and a 18 month embargo. The points could be this season or the start of next. The embargo would destroy any takeover. Time folks stopped denials and got serious. Of course we could just talk about Marinakis being a drug dealer if it makes you more secure 😘

[MadAmster]

You’re reading too much into it with timing. I told you weeks ago how serious this was. These investigations have been going on before the season started as well I don’t think it will even effect this window. However it could be devastating. It could be as many as 15-20 points and a 18 month embargo. The points could be this season or the start of next. The embargo would destroy any takeover. Time folks stopped denials and got serious. Of course we could just talk about Marinakis being a drug dealer if it makes you more secure ��

It's about the £8M excess on losses Tricky. That much we know. As I wrote in post#86 in this thread. it looks like there are 3 possibilities. DCFC made a mistake in its FFP calculations in which case the Financial Officer's job looks rather shaky. The EFL has made one in theirs. The EFL has downgraded the value of the stadium in the figures resulting in the £8M excess they have mentioned in the charge.

Which is it? I think we will have to wait and see what the Independent Commission comes up with.

One effect that the timing of the charge may well have is to deter any permanent signings from wanting to come. It shouldn't affect any prospective Loanees IMO as they would be going back to their parent club(s) in the summer. It might also discourage loaness with a view to permanent move in the summer.

Life as a Ram is never boring

[ramAnag]

You’re reading too much into it with timing. I told you weeks ago how serious this was. These investigations have been going on before the season started as well I don’t think it will even effect this window. However it could be devastating. It could be as many as 15-20 points and a 18 month embargo. The points could be this season or the start of next. The embargo would destroy any takeover. Time folks stopped denials and got serious. Of course we could just talk about Marinakis being a drug dealer if it makes you more secure ��

As I’ve said before Tricky, Marinakis is accused of much, much more than ‘being a drug dealer’. I have no idea what is true and what is hyperbole but I doubt he’s ‘squeaky clean’. Either way, far from making me feel ‘secure’ it is totally irrelevant to what is going on at Derby.

How you can say, ‘I don’t think it will even effect this window’ is beyond me.

You go on to talk of a possible 15-20 point deduction which would almost certainly send us down. With that amount of doubt surrounding the club how can we a) expect players to join except on loan and b) expect people to invest in Championship wages for possible League One income?
If that level of doubt isn’t impacting on our ability to ‘trade’ during the window I don’t know what is.

[Geoff Parkstone]

MA: if either DCFC or EFL had "made a mistake in calculations" I'm not sure its something that would go to an independent tribunal? Mistakes are generally matters of fact, not something needing judgement?