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Thread: Deal or No Deal

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    I really really wish I shared your optimism.

    Our economy will flourish.
    No problem at all with the Irish border.
    Foreigners will not be welcome...unless they are super skilled.
    We will do our own security.
    No problem with items such as medical supplies.
    We don't need farmers anyway. So 40% tariffs on sheep and even more on dairy doesn't matter, does it?
    We can import what the hell we like - even if the quality and safety standards are no as good as currently (foodstuffs etc)
    The EU will go bankrupt.
    British courts will rule on British laws. (Oh, hang on...)
    We don't need reciprocal free medical care when abroad, do we, we can buy medical insurance.
    Hooray! we will have to get one of those funky green card thingys and wait for customs checks when entering/leaving Europe.
    We can compete against the EU instead of collaborating with it.
    The collaboration between our various science projects is overrated.
    We will get our blue passport back.
    We wall be poorer, but I'll have a warm smug feeling in side once we leave.
    Our kids will be deprived of travel/working/living in Europe to a large extent but why on earth do they want to leave Britain in the first place?
    If the foreigners get nasty with the trade deals then we'll show 'em what the Bulldog spirit is all about. We lived through the Blitz don't you know?
    We will be able to buy bananas as bent as we wish.

    What's not to like? Have I missed anything?
    Why are you so scared of us being Independant, I can’t understand it .

    We are a proud nation and I’ve lost grandparents to being prisoners of war who fought for our independence to be free and you lot of remoaners want to give it all to Brussels and hitler in a skirt for nothing.

    I wander if all the youth that is constantly on debate about how they have a right to stay and the country is robbing them of a future etc.

    Not once did I see an interview that asked if their grandparents fought in two wars for our great country, maybe they d have a more balanced view if they were asked that.

    I’m behind Boris whatever anyone says on Brexit I still think the Eu will collapse eventually as others will take our lead and decide they don’t need to contribute billions to Brussels fat cats.

    It’s easy to point the finger at Boris but as I posted before he inherited the poison chalice as for 3.5 years we have weakened our position with Europe as they have laughed at our incompetence.

    I think it’s shameful what has happend across our politicians , we simply don’t have anyone fit to run the country ( the nearest is Boris ).

    People on here saying liberal will do this labour will do that , conservative will do the other.

    Simply they should have delivered a Brexit with a deal and moved on instead they have made themselves a laughing stock and lost the faith of the people and our democratic system, along with the option of a leave deal.

    None of the parties would have been able to deliver a leave brexit as they are two self obsessed about personal circumstance and career.

    It’s pathetic

  2. #22
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    Well, Boris and his posh chums are still adamant that we will leave in three weeks time.

    If it works out well I will celebrate and admit that I was wrong.

    But if it all goes pear shaped for our country then will you admit that we made a monumental error?

    More like, you will continue the blame game. But who would be left to blame this time?

    Not the EU - it was our decision to leave, not theirs.
    Not the "experts" who have been constantly warning of the peril of a no deal.
    Not the Lib Dems who are striving to stop Brexit.

    So who's fault would it be?

    I've got my ammo ready.....

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    Well, Boris and his posh chums are still adamant that we will leave in three weeks time.

    If it works out well I will celebrate and admit that I was wrong.

    But if it all goes pear shaped for our country then will you admit that we made a monumental error?

    More like, you will continue the blame game. But who would be left to blame this time?

    Not the EU - it was our decision to leave, not theirs.
    Not the "experts" who have been constantly warning of the peril of a no deal.
    Not the Lib Dems who are striving to stop Brexit.

    So who's fault would it be?

    I've got my ammo ready.....
    The politicians will be to blame 59 because as I alluded to above , they have dodged and ducked and pointed fingers at everyone but themselves, ridiculous.

    But really no one is to blame for Brexit are they as democratically we voted to leave and yet you and many others simply refuse to acknowledge that even though it was a people’s vote,
    It’s alright saying who’s fault will it be , who’s fault is it we are still where we are , trying to negotiate with people who are like you and have no interest unless it really suits them and their needs.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by army88 View Post
    The politicians will be to blame 59 because as I alluded to above , they have dodged and ducked and pointed fingers at everyone but themselves, ridiculous.

    But really no one is to blame for Brexit are they as democratically we voted to leave and yet you and many others simply refuse to acknowledge that even though it was a people’s vote,
    It’s alright saying who’s fault will it be , who’s fault is it we are still where we are , trying to negotiate with people who are like you and have no interest unless it really suits them and their needs.
    I'll highlight just one issue Army.

    Are you happy for there to be a hard border on the Irish border? If not then what is your suggestion?

    I don't know how old you are but if you were in the army a few years ago then you will be very well aware that this issue is critical.
    If we leave with no deal then a hard border is inevitable - no matter what Boris says.

  5. #25
    There are too many people on both sides of the Irish border who will not tolerate a return to the "troubles".

    Mark my words, a pragmatic solution will be found and I reckon the EU will be all the worse for it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    I'll highlight just one issue Army.

    Are you happy for there to be a hard border on the Irish border? If not then what is your suggestion?

    I don't know how old you are but if you were in the army a few years ago then you will be very well aware that this issue is critical.
    If we leave with no deal then a hard border is inevitable - no matter what Boris says.
    If I had the answer to that 59 we’d be sorted wouldn’t we, I’ve no doubt there will be a solution found so we don’t end up back to the dark days.

    My thought is though is that the real reason everyone is kicking off , I know it’s a stumbling block but my point was for 3.5 years now we have known about the issue and our politicians would rather raise a public funded court case against the prime minister for 4 days of parliament closing.
    Whilst being idolised by the press and remoaners , big smiles and thumbs up for a court case eh and PR on tv about how they showed him who’s boss.

    As you can probably tell I’m about sick to death of these people now , remoaners,false politicians, lies in the press

    I mean as balanced people yourself included Boris knee squeeze incident that happend 20 years ago allegedly - is it relevant at all to his position - does he need that when he’s trying to do his best.

    I can’t see it 59 losing the will to live with the whole charade that is Brexit and the complicit idiots who pretend to be for the people.

    We need to come out and get on with it

    This can’t go on any longer

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    I'll highlight just one issue Army.

    Are you happy for there to be a hard border on the Irish border? If not then what is your suggestion?

    I don't know how old you are but if you were in the army a few years ago then you will be very well aware that this issue is critical.
    If we leave with no deal then a hard border is inevitable - no matter what Boris says.
    You know regardless of who was - is in power we had 3 years to negotiate and come up with a solution , that’s all parties , and imo they should have done that for the good of the British people.

    I’m pretty sure from a work perspective if I took 3 years to do something ( nothing actually except moan about others doing nothing ) I’d be sacked for incompetence.
    Just a thought , I’m sure that would happen my customers wouldn’t put up with that.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    I'll highlight just one issue Army.

    Are you happy for there to be a hard border on the Irish border? If not then what is your suggestion?

    I don't know how old you are but if you were in the army a few years ago then you will be very well aware that this issue is critical.
    If we leave with no deal then a hard border is inevitable - no matter what Boris says.
    More Project Fear 59, you really have no shame have you, you really ought to know better. You are wrong as usual, there will not be a hard border in Ireland. I sometimes wonder if you are so deluded you really do believe the tripe you post, or are just posting this drivel as a bitter Remoaner. I've said many times that the Irish border is a confected problem designed to trap us in the EU, once we leave, if we ever do, the issue will be resolved quite quickly. Here is what a businessman whose company exports all over the world, including every EU country thinks about the issue.

    "In all the discussion about the Irish border, most of us can end up feeling pretty bamboozled by the whole thing. However, there are some facts that are worth remembering which actually provide the keys to a future solution. Firstly, it is worth reminding ourselves of the present situation. The UK and Republic of Ireland have a Common Travel Area which means that there is completely free movement of people between the UK and the Republic. There are different currencies, VAT rates, agricultural support regimes and rates of Excise duty applicable on either side of the border. If a Northern Irish trader exports something to the Republic, they invoice it without VAT under the despatch code and will then show on their monthly sales list the value sold to that customer in the preceding month. The customer in the Republic will declare the import VAT at the applicable Irish rate on their VAT return for the period in question. This system is policed by the customs authorities on either side of the border and throughout the EU by random inspections and the analysis of submitted Sales Lists and “summary declaration” Intrastat reports. Interestingly, if the Guinness factory ships a consignment to a customer in Northern Ireland there is not only VAT but also Excise Duty to be paid in Northern Ireland. Excise Duty is not VAT and has VAT charged on it and it is applicable principally to alcohol, tobacco and fuel. This is not collected at the border, as in days of old, but from the customer after the consignment has been received. This is the culmination of a chain of steps that starts with the shipper advising the customs authorities in the Republic that the Guinness is being shipped and its destination. It relies on co-operation between customs authorities on both sides of the border but has been proven to work well. Enforcement takes places with spot checks by customs officials and trading standards inspectors as well as analysis of the traffic taking place as evidenced by the document trails. Fuel is another interesting one and shows how even with an open border at present, the authorities on both sides have been putting enormous efforts into controlling the illicit use of untaxed Agricultural Diesel. Many have witnessed officials from the Republic stopping cars to check that they are running on taxed fuel. The Prime Minister has proposed an elegant way of addressing problems raised by the EU and others in order to keep the border open and trade free. However, his plans are really not necessary as even in the event of a “No Deal” their concerns can easily be dealt with. Firstly the Common Travel Area predates our accession to the EU and therefore means than all non-trade traffic will continue to move back and forth without impediment. Stories of people who work on the opposite side of the border from where they live, being prevented from doing so, is therefore misplaced. Secondly, there is no – and I repeat no – requirement by the WTO, for either side to install any border infrastructure. What the WTO does require is that the law applicable to goods crossing the Northern Ireland border is the same as that applicable to goods crossing the UK border elsewhere. The problem therefore boils down to an accounting issue: how do we make certain that the relevant tariffs are paid and that the goods sold by Northern Irish businesses into the Republic and EU Single Market comply with its rules. The vast majority of the traders in question will have turnovers of more than £85,000 and therefore will be registered for VAT, subject to VAT rules and required to make monthly or quarterly VAT returns. As we saw above, we already have two very good systems for handling the collection of UK and Republic of Ireland Excise duties and accounting for the VAT on cross-border trade. These systems are entirely electronic, require no border infrastructure and are fully tried and tested. Therefore by making a few small changes to the Sales List and Intrastat supplementary declarations, it would be perfectly possible to collect any tariffs due. HMRC has already developed a system along these lines for importers to use in the event of a “No Deal” called TSP, Transitional Simplified Procedures. Making sure that goods entering the EU Single Market via the Republic meet the applicable standards and regulations of the Single Market is a bit of a non-issue. It is always up to an importer who seeks to sell goods in their market to make sure that those goods meet the requirements of the laws and standards of that market. When procuring goods, they will be aware of this and therefore require of the supplier to only supply the correct versions. At present this is policed by national authorities on the whole as a result of intelligence and away from borders. Trade is determined by supply and demand. Whether they are seen as hard or soft, open or shut, borders are simply one of a number of steps in the process of the willing seller supplying what the willing buyer wants. I strongly believe that if there were a will from the EU and Dublin to find a way to co-exist with an open border, then there are a number of ways – and the simplest are already being used at this moment by their own officials."

    As someone said last week, can't remember who, 'Lock a dozen businessmen in a room for an afternoon, and this whole Brexit issue would be resolved'. Sadly though businessmen are excluded, we just have pathetic second-rate politicians, absolutely determined that we will never leave the EU, and what a sorry farce it is.
    Last edited by sinkov; 09-10-2019 at 09:23 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Bedlington Terrier View Post
    There are too many people on both sides of the Irish border who will not tolerate a return to the "troubles".

    Mark my words, a pragmatic solution will be found and I reckon the EU will be all the worse for it.
    Of course it will BT, but Project Fear has to run, and run. Sad to see otherwise sensible people falling for such drivel.

  10. #30
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    Well, in three weeks time Project Fear will no longer exist - if Boris is as good as his word ()

    And if things go well for us then I will admit that I was wring all along. I will be delighted because I want the best for my country.

    But if things turn sour ten Project Fear will become Project Blame - but who would you blame?
    Will YOU admit that you got it wrong, or continue to blame the EU or the Lib Dems?

    Not long to wait now....

  11. #31
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    .

    but......Nationalism was thought ok when Remainers campaigned with "Scotland Stronger In Europe"...was the same with Wales...but we in England were pinned back with "Britain stronger in Europe"....so the remainers were ok with fuelling the divide to suit them....but backward of them to call out Englishness when it was they that determined to shrink Britain....byt still, no fear of being labeled Little Scotlanders/Welshtirs - as for them, is seemingly all well and good - as long as your in the phook England - E.U Nationalist remain camp !


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    above post under wrong thread (can delete) - see here: http://boards.footymad.net/showthrea...1#post39342241

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    Well, in three weeks time Project Fear will no longer exist - if Boris is as good as his word ()

    And if things go well for us then I will admit that I was wring all along. I will be delighted because I want the best for my country.

    But if things turn sour ten Project Fear will become Project Blame - but who would you blame?
    Will YOU admit that you got it wrong, or continue to blame the EU or the Lib Dems?

    Not long to wait now....
    I’m interested 59 are you just going to lay all the blame at Boris door if as you say it goes Pete tong?
    I’m not sure how he can be held accountable when the man who started this bolted the job ( a lot to answer for imo ).
    May who simply didn’t want to leave and I believe spent more time negotiating on what she’d be doing if and when her tenure finished ( also a lot to answer for ).
    Then there is your lot and Jezza who have imo offered nothing to strengthen their position if there is as general election, they have pointed fingers at the prime minister but skulked around in the back ground.

    For my part I would be a lot more responsive to labour and liberal if they had come out and said there is nothing to be gained by causing more problems internally within parliament , let’s all pull together and get the right deal for the UK and then we can campaign to who takes the country forwards after Brexit was delivered.

    Just a thought

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    Well, in three weeks time Project Fear will no longer exist
    Project Fear existed before the referendum 59, and we don't need to wonder, we can see how right the experts were back then.

    "HM Treasury official guidance to voters, in a letter sent to each and every household, was that on a Leave vote, “Britain’s economy could be tipped into a year-long recession. Further, at least 500,000 jobs could be lost and GDP could be around 3.6% lower following a vote to leave the EU than it would be if we remained in the EU.”

    Year long recession...wrong.
    500,000 jobs lost...wrong.
    GDP lower...wrong.

    And that was just the Treasury 'experts', here are some more 'experts' on the consequences of a Leave vote,

    Goldman Sachs, who donated £500,000 to the Remain campaign, "the British economy would go into recession by early 2017."...wrong.
    Credit Suisse predicted a 1pc fall in GDP...wrong.
    Nomura predicted a 1.3% fall...wrong.
    Chris Giles, Economics Editor, Financial Times, predicted a recession...wrong.
    Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England, predicted inflation rising to 6.5%, and property values to drop by a third,...wrong and wrong.
    David Cameron, Prime MInister,"The job you do, the home you live in are at risk. The shock to our economy after leaving Europe would tip the country into recession.”...wrong.
    IMF, “Brexit would trigger recession”, predicted -0.3% GDP for Q3"...wrong.
    OECD, "Short term impact of -1.25% GDP"....wrong.
    "FTSE 100 could see £350bn wiped off in Brexit aftermath, warns UBS"...wrong.
    "Sterling would fall to parity vs euro after Brexit vote – UBS”...wrong.
    George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer, "A Brexit vote ‘would immediately lead to an increase in the premium for lending to UK businesses and households."...wrong.

    And here's what the BBC's economics editor Kamal Ahmed had to say about the Treasury forecasts, "the Treasury analysis can be set apart from the "he said, she said" tenor of much of the EU referendum debate. It is based on a well-understood and tested economic model."
    So the BBC's 'expert' was endorsing the Treasury forecast as well, but as we now know, it was... wrong.

    The thing is 59, you claim the result of the referendum was influenced by misinformation from the Leave side, those 'lies' swung it Leave's way and so the result is invalid. But if lies influenced some voters, then who had the most influential, convincing liars ? For every voter influenced by two mavericks like Boris and Farage, there must have been half a dozen or more influenced by the BBC, the PM, the Chancellor, the IMF, the blg banks, the CBI, President Obama, the Governor of the Bank of England etc.

    Cut out the lies and misinformation from both sides and it would have been a landslide for Leave, you got lucky that lies were allowed and passed off by the national broadcaster as facts, which had to be believed. And now you're trying it again.

  15. #35
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    Yes, i agree that the referendum campaign was sh1te on both sides.
    The people were offered Boris's Unicorn deal or the status quo.

    Neither side came out of it with much credit.

    That's why the public should be asked the question again, this time armed with real information.

    Do you want a hard Brexit or remain? Those seem to be the only options at the moment.

    And we could use the Government (Boris, Rees-Mogg etc) own Yellowhammer document as a guide - just like the Government are using it.

    We both agree that the original referendum campaign was full of lies and scare tactics (on both sides) so let the people decide on the actual Governments best estimate of what it would actually mean?

    Seems logical to me.

    Or we could decide via a GE where each party stands on it's own policy.

    Which would mean...

    Tory - Hard Brexit
    Labour - Second referendum
    Lib Dem - Remain

    Can't get more democratic than that, eh?

  16. #36
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    and that government of the people by the people for the people shall not perish from the earth. Those were the concluding words of the Gettysburg Address. Well if not entirely perished here it has withered on the vine. Our government has been of late by in no particular order John Bercow a ragtag alliance of Remainers and the Brussels bureaucracy. I am almost past caring now whether we stay in the EU or Leave. This last Parliament has proved an incompetent bunch who only care for your vote when it is the vote that keeps or gets them into power. I can never look at Parliament the same way again.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post
    Yes, i agree that the referendum campaign was sh1te on both sides.
    The people were offered Boris's Unicorn deal or the status quo.

    Neither side came out of it with much credit.

    That's why the public should be asked the question again, this time armed with real information.

    Do you want a hard Brexit or remain? Those seem to be the only options at the moment.

    And we could use the Government (Boris, Rees-Mogg etc) own Yellowhammer document as a guide - just like the Government are using it.

    We both agree that the original referendum campaign was full of lies and scare tactics (on both sides) so let the people decide on the actual Governments best estimate of what it would actually mean?

    Seems logical to me.

    Or we could decide via a GE where each party stands on it's own policy.

    Which would mean...

    Tory - Hard Brexit
    Labour - Second referendum
    Lib Dem - Remain

    Can't get more democratic than that, eh?
    There is possibly a more democratic way 59, accept the result of the largest democratic vote this country has ever seen, as parliament has already voted to do, and leave under Article 50 of the EU's Treaty of Rome on October 31st, which also happens to be legislated for under UK law as well. Of course if you have no respect for democracy or the law...………..?

    Just to go back a bit though, I disagree with your basic premise, you treat the people of this country as idiots and morons, I don't. We have a fairly sophisticated electorate, they can see through people like you, just pushing the party line, they have a contempt for our politicians, they can see through them quite easily as well, they are well capable of seeing through their bluff, bluster, lies and misinformation, they are not fools, they are capable of making their own minds up, which they did and voted to Leave. So we must leave, couldn't be simpler.

  18. #38
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    I've got it!

    All those that voted Brexit in 2016 can have it. A hard Brexit too.

    And those of us who voted remain can be treated as still being in the EU.

    Everyones happy!

    So all your goods that are imported will be subject to WTO tariffs, cars plus 10% for instance.
    We remainers will be able to buy tariff free.

    To visit the continent (with your blue passport) you will have to obtain a Green card and take our private medical insurance.
    We (with our Claret passport) will have free insurance and simply bugger off.

    If we, or our children, wish to live or work in Europe then we can. Same as getting a job in Yarkshire.
    You lot will find it very difficult.

    The trucks carrying our goods will be waved through the border.
    Your trucks will be held up, possibly for a considerable time.

    Some companies will struggle with the new arrangement, but the Remain companies will continue as per normal.

    Lots more examples but you get my drift.
    I am struggling to see any benefit for you lot though.

    Shall I tell Boris?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1959_60 View Post

    And if things go well for us then I will admit that I was wring all along. I will be delighted because I want the best for my country.
    But if things turn sour ten Project Fear will become Project Blame - but who would you blame?
    Will YOU admit that you got it wrong, or continue to blame the EU or the Lib Dems?

    Not long to wait now....
    I think we'll have quite a few years to wait 59, before we can make a definitive judgement on whether it was the right decision to leave purely on economic grounds, but if we are in a position to vote out those who make our laws, who tell us how we run our lives, who set the taxes we pay, then I will be content.

    In the short term I doubt you'll be disappointed, yesterday we went shopping in Booths, I was told to find the figs which were on the shopping list, I told Mrs S where they were and thought she would pick them up, she thought I'd picked them up, so we get home, no figs. Today we were in Sainsburys, I went to find the figs, no figs, I asked an assistant if they had any in their store, he said no, we can't get them. I thought this strange because Booths had plenty the day before so I asked him why not. 'Brexit', he said, 'WTF has Brexit got to do with it', I asked, but I left the WTF out, 'Problems at the ports' he said, 'But we haven't left the fecking EU yet' I said, but I left the fecking out. He just shrugged and walked away, If we ever do get out, I expect there'll be plenty more where that came from. You'll have a field day watching the BBC mon ami.

  20. #40
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    That's a fair point Sinkov.

    Do you remember decimilisation?

    The prices of many things went up afterwards I remember.

    The inevitable reason given was "decimilisation" and most people just shrugged and accepted it.

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