England

[AdiSalisbury]

Excellent performance tonight. I think we take for granted these results now, yet 10 years ago we'd have scraped a 1-0 victory. Total transformation.

Shame some very good performances and a debut have been marred by racial abuse, some of it even organised. I thought booing the national anthem was disgusting, what followed is sickening.

[Oldtimeram]

I believe they won

[Geoff Parkstone]

Question is, was it some of the English fans in with the Bulgars that set them off. We are not innocents abroad ourselves....

[Andy_Faber]

Not really sure how much long-term impact England FCs stance will have when a few weeks ago 10,000 Leeds fans were chanting 'You Fat B**tard' at a Derby chubster - latent hatred is everywhere, emboldened by numbers

[MadAmster]

Indeed, where does banter stop and racism start? It starts when a colour or nationality is added. It is also seen as racism when a religion is added to the chant.

Whether calling someone overweight and illegiitimate should fall under some kind of unacceptable -ism is a matter for debate.

How far should fans be allwoed to go? IMO asking David Beckham if 'er indoors likes anal *** is going too far. You can all, more than likely, think of a myriad of other chants that are simply "not on".

[ramAnag]

Indeed, where does banter stop and racism start? It starts when a colour or nationality is added. It is also seen as racism when a religion is added to the chant.

Whether calling someone overweight and illegiitimate should fall under some kind of unacceptable -ism is a matter for debate.

How far should fans be allwoed to go? IMO asking David Beckham if 'er indoors likes anal *** is going too far. You can all, more than likely, think of a myriad of other chants that are simply "not on".

Bottom line is, maybe, MA - and it goes for people on here as well as in crowds - if you wouldn’t say it individually to someone’s face then don’t say it.
Too many get ‘brave’ via the anonymity of an online forum or ‘hidden’ amongst a crowd.

Never had much time for Stan Collymore but some of the chants about his mental health were out of order too imo and in answer to the banter v racism question...isn’t it the case that racism is always wrong?

[MadAmster]

Bottom line is, maybe, MA - and it goes for people on here as well as in crowds - if you wouldn’t say it individually to someone’s face then don’t say it.
Too many get ‘brave’ via the anonymity of an online forum or ‘hidden’ amongst a crowd.

Never had much time for Stan Collymore but some of the chants about his mental health were out of order too imo and in answer to the banter v racism question...isn’t it the case that racism is always wrong?

Still the grey area between banter and any -ism though IMO.

Imagine the scenario, and we will have all witnessed exactly this one, an expensive striker is having an off day and has missed 3 open chances which any of us could have bobbed in off our Johnsons........ cue "score in a brothel, you couldn't score.......". Banter. We may even know players who CAN score in one - However, if that striker is German, for instance, and he gets serenaded with "you useless German ******", then it is racist. It's that simple.

Monkey noises and throwing bananas is racist too. Not big, not clever, just racist. It should no longer happen.

[GUNTERYY36]

Not a mention of the slaughter of white farmers in S Africa. Or the unimaginable atrocities of muslims on white children. Throw a banana on to a football pitch and World War III breaks out. White man's burden, I guess.

[MadAmster]

No harm in your trying to widen the scope of the discussion Gunter. It was about racism in football but you're right. The haves, have as much as they do in this world because they have taken it from the have nots.

First they built up their wealth by taking over other countries, "civilising" them by ruling with an iron rod and shooting religion into them...... Having screwed up Asia and Africa they set about screwing over their serfs back home and now it's back to Africa for GOD aka Gold, Oil and Diamonds. Cause wars through lies and keep sending 17 to 22 year olds to do the fighting.

Murder (Genocide) millions into the bargain and you can understand ppeople turning on white farmers. That worked out well in Zimbabwe didn't it? What was once known as the bread basket of Africa now has very poor productiivity from its farms and many people are underfed. Another good diea that wasn't well executed.... Maybe poor choice of language there.... the wite farmers should have been kept on as managers and advisers as the indigenous folk who took the farms over had no idea about sustainable farming. Of course, them having a despot as President wasn't a great help to the country either.

Crap happened in the past and it is still happening. The indigenous population of North America is still treated like 5th grade citizens by the USA. Those of the Amazon are being killed as I type because they stand in the way of more deforestation to make already filthy rich people even more rich. The Middle East is a playground for the west and russia for no other reason that to have control of the oil. Libya's Ghadaffi was eventually killed for no other crime than wanting to change his and the rest of Africa's economy to their own benefit and to the very great detriment of France who would no longer be receiving huge amounts of money from their former protectorates, a sort of tax that has noright to be levied........

... and, yes, the British were as bad as the rest in the past and still meddle in affairs in that region they should stay out of.

Muslim atrocities on children of all faiths and creeds..... disgusting but I am in no position to put a stop to it. Neither are you Gunter. We lack influence.

IMO we were all aware of the things I have written in this post and were equally aware of our lack of influence which is why we discuss things closer to home. Racism at football? We can write a letter to the FA and hope they take measures to stop it at home and also put pressure UEFA and FIFA into some meaningful action.

I have to disagree with you. It's not the white man's burden, it is the burden of the 99% who don't seem to be able to take control of the 1%. Get them out of the picture and maybe the rest of us can move forward.

[GUNTERYY36]

No harm in your trying to widen the scope of the discussion Gunter. It was about racism in football but you're right. The haves, have as much as they do in this world because they have taken it from the have nots.

First they built up their wealth by taking over other countries, "civilising" them by ruling with an iron rod and shooting religion into them...... Having screwed up Asia and Africa they set about screwing over their serfs back home and now it's back to Africa for GOD aka Gold, Oil and Diamonds. Cause wars through lies and keep sending 17 to 22 year olds to do the fighting.

Murder (Genocide) millions into the bargain and you can understand ppeople turning on white farmers. That worked out well in Zimbabwe didn't it? What was once known as the bread basket of Africa now has very poor productiivity from its farms and many people are underfed. Another good diea that wasn't well executed.... Maybe poor choice of language there.... the wite farmers should have been kept on as managers and advisers as the indigenous folk who took the farms over had no idea about sustainable farming. Of course, them having a despot as President wasn't a great help to the country either.

Crap happened in the past and it is still happening. The indigenous population of North America is still treated like 5th grade citizens by the USA. Those of the Amazon are being killed as I type because they stand in the way of more deforestation to make already filthy rich people even more rich. The Middle East is a playground for the west and russia for no other reason that to have control of the oil. Libya's Ghadaffi was eventually killed for no other crime than wanting to change his and the rest of Africa's economy to their own benefit and to the very great detriment of France who would no longer be receiving huge amounts of money from their former protectorates, a sort of tax that has noright to be levied........

... and, yes, the British were as bad as the rest in the past and still meddle in affairs in that region they should stay out of.

Muslim atrocities on children of all faiths and creeds..... disgusting but I am in no position to put a stop to it. Neither are you Gunter. We lack influence.

IMO we were all aware of the things I have written in this post and were equally aware of our lack of influence which is why we discuss things closer to home. Racism at football? We can write a letter to the FA and hope they take measures to stop it at home and also put pressure UEFA and FIFA into some meaningful action.

I have to disagree with you. It's not the white man's burden, it is the burden of the 99% who don't seem to be able to take control of the 1%. Get them out of the picture and maybe the rest of us can move forward.

MadAmster, my point was that some aspects of racism receive wide media coverage while others receive none at all. Not just in football but in society at large. The other night's commentator seemed more absorbed in the off the field activities than he did the football. He rightly reported on what was happening off the pitch but also gave his own personal intake on what he called 'the disease' of racism. This was not a one off incident. I personally am sick to the back teeth of hearing about racism. Some people see racism in every nook and cranny and I firmly believe if it didn't receive so much attention, there'd be less of it.

The less said about muslims the better.