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Thread: O/T:- NBA Controversy

  1. #1

    O/T:- NBA Controversy

    Not sure if anyone here follows US Sports (I'm a big follower of the NHL and NBA) but even if you don't you surely can't have missed the news this month regarding China and NBA, Le Bron James in particular making the headlines after attempting (and mostly failing) to walk back his apparent support for the Chinese governments actions in Hong Kong.

    For those who aren't aware - the Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey recently published a post on twitter criticising the actions of the Chinese government in Hong Kong - which turned into a media storm with China pulling their sponsorship and televising of the NBA in the country as a result. The NBA clearly want Chinese sponsorship and the money that China has to offer, and so Morey removed the tweet and apologised; with the Chinese government asking for "mutual respect". It's sad to see how quickly the NBA has been willing to sell its soul over this (especially a role model like Le Bron James), and its affecting other industries too, with Apple banning pro democracy singers from selling on the Apple Music store to appease China as well. This will surely have ramifications for the music industry, film and television (with South Park getting banned this week for being critical of China's human rights record and comparing Xi Jingping to Winnie the Pooh - a character already banned in China for this having previously been done.

    Given how the NBA have taken the approach to toe the Chinese line and are trying to repair that customer relationship by not allowing, or at least actively discouraging NBA officials from discussing the issues on their personal social media accounts, is geo-politics going to be something we see playing a bigger role in Football and sport in general? As China ramps up its investment in sports and broadcasting abroad are we going to see changes in the way matches are recorded? Are we going to see relatively average Chinese players in the Premier League simply to gain access to the market and appease the financial decision makers, with financial threats towards clubs who drop these players? Will sponsors have to be vetted by foreign powers, players social media accounts tracked and monitored? Or do we take affirmative action now and make it clear that as an industry we are not going to accept investment from authoritarians? It certainly seems that its an all or nothing relationship so surely you are either with them or against them. My guess is that the Premier League and football league will jump at virtually any money it can get.
    Last edited by SwalePie; 16-10-2019 at 09:27 AM. Reason: Added omitted O/T:- prefix

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skatorna View Post
    Not sure if anyone here follows US Sports (I'm a big follower of the NHL and NBA) but even if you don't you surely can't have missed the news this month regarding China and NBA, Le Bron James in particular making the headlines after attempting (and mostly failing) to walk back his apparent support for the Chinese governments actions in Hong Kong.

    For those who aren't aware - the Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey recently published a post on twitter criticising the actions of the Chinese government in Hong Kong - which turned into a media storm with China pulling their sponsorship and televising of the NBA in the country as a result. The NBA clearly want Chinese sponsorship and the money that China has to offer, and so Morey removed the tweet and apologised; with the Chinese government asking for "mutual respect". It's sad to see how quickly the NBA has been willing to sell its soul over this (especially a role model like Le Bron James), and its affecting other industries too, with Apple banning pro democracy singers from selling on the Apple Music store to appease China as well. This will surely have ramifications for the music industry, film and television (with South Park getting banned this week for being critical of China's human rights record and comparing Xi Jingping to Winnie the Pooh - a character already banned in China for this having previously been done.

    Given how the NBA have taken the approach to toe the Chinese line and are trying to repair that customer relationship by not allowing, or at least actively discouraging NBA officials from discussing the issues on their personal social media accounts, is geo-politics going to be something we see playing a bigger role in Football and sport in general? As China ramps up its investment in sports and broadcasting abroad are we going to see changes in the way matches are recorded? Are we going to see relatively average Chinese players in the Premier League simply to gain access to the market and appease the financial decision makers, with financial threats towards clubs who drop these players? Will sponsors have to be vetted by foreign powers, players social media accounts tracked and monitored? Or do we take affirmative action now and make it clear that as an industry we are not going to accept investment from authoritarians? It certainly seems that its an all or nothing relationship so surely you are either with them or against them. My guess is that the Premier League and football league will jump at virtually any money it can get.
    Pure capitalism doesn't always lead to a just outcome!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Pure capitalism doesn't always lead to a just outcome!
    Especially when it gets in bed with an authoritarian power!

    I'm not overly surprised that US sports teams would be willing to do this as they are much more brands than they are clubs, and don't have the same community feel as the football clubs here in the UK that have been a key part of local communities for well over 100 years. While it's awful that they are willing to get in bed with such people for money, it would be absolutely heartbreaking for it to happen over here; and I can see it happening in the next 5 years - especially championship clubs that are willing to do anything to get to the PL and more clubs seeing the opportunity to fill the void left by Manchester United at the top. If we thought money in football was already a problem, the signs suggest that it is only going to get worse, not better.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skatorna View Post
    Especially when it gets in bed with an authoritarian power!

    I'm not overly surprised that US sports teams would be willing to do this as they are much more brands than they are clubs, and don't have the same community feel as the football clubs here in the UK that have been a key part of local communities for well over 100 years. While it's awful that they are willing to get in bed with such people for money, it would be absolutely heartbreaking for it to happen over here; and I can see it happening in the next 5 years - especially championship clubs that are willing to do anything to get to the PL and more clubs seeing the opportunity to fill the void left by Manchester United at the top. If we thought money in football was already a problem, the signs suggest that it is only going to get worse, not better.
    Well yes but from a capitalistic point of view they're doing something perfectly rational.

    Apple could stop selling phones tomorrow and still have enough money to pay all its employees for a other thousand years, they don't really need the Chinese market at all but their only goal is the incessant accumulation of capital, so who cares what happens to Hong Kong?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Well yes but from a capitalistic point of view they're doing something perfectly rational.

    Apple could stop selling phones tomorrow and still have enough money to pay all its employees for a other thousand years, they don't really need the Chinese market at all but their only goal is the incessant accumulation of capital, so who cares what happens to Hong Kong?
    I'm not really sure I would agree with that. Capitalism boils down to the freedom of exchange and cooperation, not "YOU MUST INVEST IN EVERY POSSIBLE VENTURE AND MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU PHYSICALLY CAN OR YOU'RE A COMMUNIST". You can be a capitalist and refuse to do dealings with someone.

    Apple build their iPhones in China. If they got kicked out I imagine they would actually struggle to continue operations at the same level as they would have to create completely new supply chains, find new locations where they can build the phones at a similar rate and quality and at the same cost.

    In any case - my intention behind the post is not to discuss the finer nuances of capitalism, but to focus on the effects this could have on British football in the future
    Last edited by Skatorna; 16-10-2019 at 10:04 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skatorna View Post
    I'm not really sure I would agree with that. Capitalism boils down to the freedom of exchange and cooperation, not "YOU MUST INVEST IN EVERY POSSIBLE VENTURE AND MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS YOU PHYSICALLY CAN OR YOU'RE A COMMUNIST". You can be a capitalist and refuse to do dealings with someone.

    Apple build their iPhones in China. If they got kicked out I imagine they would actually struggle to continue operations at the same level as they would have to create completely new supply chains, find new locations where they can build the phones at a similar rate and quality and at the same cost.

    In any case - my intention behind the post is not to discuss the finer nuances of capitalism, but to focus on the effects this could have on British football in the future
    Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. The point of capitalism in its purest form is to use the capital you have to accumulate more capital and therefore yes, make as much money as you possibly can.

    Of course if you live in a democracy you're free to choose whether to invest in something or not, but when you choose not to for purely ethical reasons you are not following the doctrine of capitalism.

    It is relevant to English football clubs because they already play games at strange times, in strange kits, with no political slogans allowed in case it makes the product less marketable. This process will obviously just continue until football is completely beholden to the interests of highest bidder, which is extremely unlikely to be the fans.

  7. #7
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    Plus I think Apple already have a lot of their production in Taiwan and would be able to move more there, or just move it to some other developing country with lax environmental and employment regulations.

    Same with the NBA, basketball would still be played and everyone would still be handsomely remunerated if the whole of China switched off tomorrow, but that's not enough, they want all they money they can get.

  8. #8
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    Money rules everything in this world so there's no surprise companies are bending over backwards for China. It doesn't matter what your human rights record is like as long as you have money, you can even have major tournaments where people have died building the infrastructure if you pay enough money to the right people. Then you have political parties relaying on support and donations from companies so they're not going to ever make policy against these companies even if they're proved to be immoral.

    Then we're all expected to lead straight lives, ****ing hypocrites the lot of them.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by drillerpie View Post
    Well we will have to agree to disagree on that. The point of capitalism in its purest form is to use the capital you have to accumulate more capital and therefore yes, make as much money as you possibly can.

    Of course if you live in a democracy you're free to choose whether to invest in something or not, but when you choose not to for purely ethical reasons you are not following the doctrine of capitalism.

    It is relevant to English football clubs because they already play games at strange times, in strange kits, with no political slogans allowed in case it makes the product less marketable. This process will obviously just continue until football is completely beholden to the interests of highest bidder, which is extremely unlikely to be the fans.
    I think you are projecting still - where is this sacred Doctrines of Capitalism? Private ownership of the means of production and property, free market economy and self interest (which is mutilfaceted and complex when linked in with Maslows Hierarchy of Needs) are the closest you can get to the basic tenets of capitalism, but I just disagree with the belief that the greedy worst of the free market is capitalism but somehow the best of the free market isn't.

    You're most likely right in regards to how this will affect football though, at least at the highest level. How awful a future we can see before us where in all likelihood our sporting institutions will become the mouthpieces of authoritarians. It didn't take long for LeBron James - probably one of the most famous sportsmen and role models on the planet, to come out in apparent apathy of the oppression of Hong Kong protestors and supporting China's opposition to freedom of speech.

  10. #10
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    Daryl Morey is a different kind of NBA GM (big risk taker) but I don't think he thought this one through.

    Of course the rest of the NBA are going to be shocked - all the work they've put in over decades is wasted by just one tweet.

    Lebron seems pretty reserved in what he said in response. To paraphrase, yes there's free speech, but you should think about the negative consequences of what you say.

    As things stand, the HK authorities have been quite restrained in dealing with a massive public order problem so Morey's objections must be ideological.

    I'll forget about Morey. I hope Harden and Westbrook can do the business this year, even if it's against Lebron

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