How long has Mowbray got.......

[Saxo1man41]

One thing I will say, is once bad form and results set in, not many managers ever recover from that.

I do believe in the idea that managers can 'lose the dressing room'.

[robinrover]

Yes they can saxo but alot of these players like and value him,however I saw a lack of effort on Tuesday.
A repeat on Saturday and I cant see any other way than a change.
Most of us expect a loss to Preston but it's how much effort gets applied.

[champs95]

No - I'm not saying Graham has played well. He has generally been disappointing. Having agreed that, we did actually look better after he appeared on Tuesday, despite him missing a good chance.
My point is that virtually all of our players have been inconsistent, and saying that's "because of" Mowbray doesn't really make sense. Who is "responsible" then for the games where individuals or the team HAVE played well? You can't have it both ways!
I have no problem with TM being sacked if we lose the next two. That's the way football works, and I will welcome whoever replaces him.
However, I will not join in with this nonsense that "everything is the manager's fault". In all my years playing a variety of team-sports, on the many occasions I had a poor game, it never crossed my mind to say, "Yeah - I had a shocker, but it was all because of the coach."
To go back to the Travis business, are you really arguing that if a manager says to a midfielder, "I want you make sure we're a bit tighter through the centre today", he means the player should stand in one area, and under no circumstances contribute to the attacking side of the game?
These are talented professionals. They are not robots, controlled by the man in the dug-out.
We are playing poorly at the moment, and Mowbray inevitably carries the can for that. Personally, I feel he has been too loyal to certain players throughout his career with us, and has perhaps relied too heavily on experience. But when I read on the Telegraph site that he is somehow responsible even for the injuries, I despair.
I am also startled by the widespread belief that any new manager will produce a magical change. Yes - our recent history really supports that notion, doesn't it?!
Chris Hughton? A very likeable man with good ideas on football...but one sacked by Norwich and Brighton.
This notion of generically "good" and "bad" managers is tosh. They are only ever as good as their last job.
Mowbray is a "bad" one at the moment. He might well go somewhere else and turn into a "good" one again. (I wonder how we should classify Cook and Hurst now - the suggested saviours last time Mowbray was under the cosh!)
Meanwhile, the players sail on, carefree - no doubt buying into the story that they couldn't help their poor performances because they were being badly managed.
As far as I am concerned, we are a Championship club now, whatever history says. If we get to the play-offs one season soon, that will be exciting and enjoyable. Then we might strike really lucky and do what Burnley have done for a few seasons. Very unlikely, however. The PL is NOT, somehow, our rightful place.
My bottom line is just the old cliche - take it one game at a time. Mowbray probably has two chances left, but I have no idea what will happen next (even in the Preston game) because this is football. I am not optimistic because lack of confidence is a killer. All the same, Mowbray - at the very least - deserves that these players should come out fighting on Saturday.
In a couple of matches this season, we have looked really slick. In most of the others, we have ranged from lacklustre to poor. Do you really want to put yourself in the difficult position of trying to explain where those good games came from if the manager is 100% responsible, and yet the same man has been in charge for every game?
To me, there are far more factors in play than what one man, who is NOT on the pitch, says and does before the whistle blows. Trying to reduce the complexities of football to that one criterion is just ridiculous.

we did actually look better after he appeared on Tuesday, despite him missing a good chance.


Disagree, not sure he even touched the ball, other than miss one glaring chance. Our only chance in 90 mins. He failed to hold the ball up, didnt play anyone in, and look slow and methodical as he has done all season long. I stated my concern in the Charlton game (and told told I was talking rubbish) and pretty much every game he has featured since. Glad others are finally noticing now, a 3rd of the season in. One goal, one pen. And nothing else. The fact he keeps going back to him, is way more concerning than his non-performances.

I have no problem with TM being sacked if we lose the next two. That's the way football works, and I will welcome whoever replaces him.

Same. I loved Alan Shearer. He decided he would be better off leaving us, after being a hero to us all. People leave, you move on. I always felt Dalglish moved too quick. I was sad we lost Mark Hughes to Man City. People move on Auks.
As a man, I love Mowbray. He is a good bloke. And I for one will never forget the amazing work he did stabilizing this club, and keeping us good on the pitch. During one of our toughest times as a club. He has been nothing short of brilliant up top this season. I just think he is out of idea's here now. and we owe nobody a living. If I don't perform in my job, and fail to hit my targets, despite performing well in 2018 and being well liked by all, in 2019 I would risk losing my job. That's just a basic fact of life. Football isn't loyal, its every-man for himself. The ones who sit still eventually end up sinking.

I am also startled by the widespread belief that any new manager will produce a magical change. Yes - our recent history really supports that notion, doesn't it?!

If you aren't aware that in a majority of cases a new manager generally provides an upturn of results, then fine. Look at all the clubs down near us who have made a managerial change? And look at their results after. Then name one who haven't benefitted?
Did Mowbray turn things round when he first came in? Yes, in pretty much the first game. Trouble was, by the time he came in, it was already a bit too late. Even though he got us loads of points once he came in, we still dropped. We didn't react quickly enough to the obvious signs things had gone wrong. There are obvious signs at the moment...imo.

Chris Hughton? A very likeable man with good ideas on football...but one sacked by Norwich and Brighton.

You see that. Which is true. I see a guy who knows this division very very well. But has found a way to get out of it and been successful multiple times. TM hasn't. He has also been a Prem league manager multiple times, Mowbray hasn't.
Its not about good or bad, I should have phrased it differently. Its who could pick things up, and move us onto the next level. He has had alot more success in his managerial career. Same sort of guy, has integrity, is a strong character, but has more about him, when it comes to getting out of this crap, but hard to get out of, division.
Getting him wouldn't guarantee success, but it would give us much more of a chance.
I just feel its time the baton was handed over. One guy has been really good for us. Now its time for him to move on, and someone else to pick it up and take it on.

The likes of Hust, Cook Auks are Div1 managers, or at the very best, just above the relegation zone in the Champ.
I really think you should use a more relevant comparision. We are miles above the likes of Shrewsbury and Wigan.

As far as I am concerned, we are a Championship club now,
Debatable. On Sat we could be 1 point away from the bottom 3. And I really would not fancy one of these lads to help this club in a relegation battle. If Rovers dropped back into Div1 (and we are showing that form for well over a month now, consistently) it would be critical. We got backed last time, why would they pump more money in? I see another Bury FC coming here a mile away if they are not careful.


To go back to the Travis business, are you really arguing that if a manager says to a midfielder, "I want you make sure we're a bit tighter through the centre today", he means the player should stand in one area, and under no circumstances contribute to the attacking side of the game?

Yes!!! 110% That is exactly what he told him. In the second half, he said after the game, he told Travis to push on. We lost this game down to our poor first half performance. Lacklusture, set up wrong. And woeful performances from the senoir lads, Johnson, Downing, Williams etc. Not to be blamed soley on the manager. But he failed in his job, as did a majority of the players.

We are a midtable Champ club.
I agree. We are displaying relegation form however. Since Jan last year, we have had more than one long bad run. Its becoming the norm. The slick good games, are few and far between.
I cant explain the swing between good and bad. But since Jan last year, we have been bad, more than we have been good. If it was the other way round, we wouldnt have a problem.

The one thing I think we agree on, is he has been too loyal for too long to people who have just let him down. Not because they are bad people, or sly. Or not trying. Because they simply aren't good enough. Elliott Bennett, Williams, Danny Graham, Smallwood last season.

[AucklandRover]

Just a few points.
I don't deny the "new manager bounce" effect. We got it from Lambert...and then the balloon slowly deflated. (I still think we'd have been better off keeping Bowyer).
The reason I mentioned Hurst and Cook was that they were put forward as bright, young, forward-looking managers, who would be much better than Mowbray. What has happened since?
And the fact remains, Hughton has as much "failure" on his CV as "success" - just like the vast majority of managers.
You say you can't explain the "swing between good and bad". Neither can I. That's the point - there has to be more to it than just the way the team is managed.
On the Travis point, you will never get me to agree. The manager dictates the overall shape for a game, but the notion that a player is somehow "trapped" by it strikes me as nonsense. A match is made up of individual moments, and players have to react to them. They simply can't say, "I won't venture into that area because the manager has told me not to."
For heaven's sake, it has to be more spontaneous than that!
None of this is intended to absolve Mowbray of responsibility, and - as Robin says - he looks a bit shellshocked at the moment. He is probably on his last legs. All the same, you will never get me to go along with this idea that the players are somehow helpless victims if the manager isn't telling them the right things to do.

[champs95]

Just a few points.
I don't deny the "new manager bounce" effect. We got it from Lambert...and then the balloon slowly deflated. (I still think we'd have been better off keeping Bowyer).
The reason I mentioned Hurst and Cook was that they were put forward as bright, young, forward-looking managers, who would be much better than Mowbray. What has happened since?
And the fact remains, Hughton has as much "failure" on his CV as "success" - just like the vast majority of managers.
You say you can't explain the "swing between good and bad". Neither can I. That's the point - there has to be more to it than just the way the team is managed.
On the Travis point, you will never get me to agree. The manager dictates the overall shape for a game, but the notion that a player is somehow "trapped" by it strikes me as nonsense. A match is made up of individual moments, and players have to react to them. They simply can't say, "I won't venture into that area because the manager has told me not to."
For heaven's sake, it has to be more spontaneous than that!
None of this is intended to absolve Mowbray of responsibility, and - as Robin says - he looks a bit shellshocked at the moment. He is probably on his last legs. All the same, you will never get me to go along with this idea that the players are somehow helpless victims if the manager isn't telling them the right things to do.

I do agree with some of those points Aucks. I do. With Travis, I do feel he should be in the same area of the pitch as Holtby & Dack. The spearhead of our midfield. Not sat holding back. Now I can tell you 100% he is doing that due to what he is being told by the manager (or coaching staff) not by choice. His natural game, is further up the pitch by 20/30 yards. Influencing a game.
Another example is Buckley. A young lad, who needs nurturing. That's 2 games now I have seen Mowbray out this kid on with 15 mins to go. This is into a game we are struggling. Havent played well, have senior pro's not having a good evening (again) And he's thrown on, into a deep midfield role and told to go and influence the game. He did that vrs Cardiff at home. Same position, we struggled in that game aswell, to break them down. And it finished nil nil. What did he expect this kid to do? When I mentioned plsyers getting destroyed confidence wise. Like playing SG out wide. And Brereton last season. Its happening with young Buckley. They are being asked to do very strange things that make no sense. And get no results. That's a major concern. And he keeps doing it. I maybe need to change my wording? Destroy? More not help these young lads confidence whatsoever. And playing them at the complete wrong time. And wrong place. Worrying.
With Mowbray at the moment, it's more what he is saying. That's my concern. He does look like a rabbit caught in the headlights and isn't sticking to one simple format. Once you hear contradictions, you know things aren't going well. And I'm hearing alot at the moment.

I've mentioned Buckley above. Not sure where to put him at the moment. But Chapman is bang in form. As is Butterworth, as in Rankin Costello as is Jack Vale. I would much rather see us go with Chapman and Vale tomorrow. Over Graham and say Rothwell.

[seventwo]

Jeez, I've thought this so often. How can anyone write so many words about football? Completely baffling.
There is so much wrong in the world. Get a life ffs. No wonder there are so few left to read it. I don't, never have, never will. Plus ca change?

[AucklandRover]

Seventwo - you have to be a nerd!

[seventwo]