O/T - general election 2019

[animallittle3]

Yes they do need to change and quickly

A plunge into the 1970s though isn't the answer

Last thing we want is a government that spends money it hasn't got.

Every government borrows money , no more so than the tories .

The issue isn't the borrowing Grist it's what it's borrowed for in my opinion .

The deal presented is that if you want affordable housing and a first rate health service then be prepared to be taxed in the years ahead OR accept low taxes , high rents , no chance of getting on the property ladder and be prepared to pay 5k a year for your health insurance .

It really is that simple .

[Grist_To_The_Mill]

Every government borrows money , no more so than the tories .

The issue isn't the borrowing Grist it's what it's borrowed for in my opinion .

The deal presented is that if you want affordable housing and a first rate health service then be prepared to be taxed in the years ahead OR accept low taxes , high rents , no chance of getting on the property ladder and be prepared to pay 5k a year for your health insurance .

It really is that simple .

Indeed it is.

Borrow money for essentials, not vote grabbing stuff.

It really is that simple.

Don't borrow what you can't pay back

[animallittle3]

Indeed it is.

Borrow money for essentials, not vote grabbing stuff.

It really is that simple.

Don't borrow what you can't pay back

I remember how I got a start in life Grist as I'm sure most of us on this forum did if you are of a certain age .

Bloody hard graft , however here's the thing , if I wanted to save up to get on the property ladder I worked overtime , 12 hour shifts and weekend work at premium rates .

You don't even have that opportunity now , saturday and sunday are part of the normal working week , paid at flat rate , many people aren't even guaranteed a full working week never mind overtime .

Potential wealth is diverted from the working man and funneled in to the boardroom .

This is the free market and neoliberalism in all its glory .

House prices were at levels where with prudence and sacrifice you could attain a property , it wasn't a dream , head down , graft and it was yours .

Clearly that horse has bolted and yet free broadband is the focus and the headline grabber .

I'm at a loss here with this one , I really am .

[wendun]

One change in the property market in the last 10 years or so is that now I know 7 or 8 "ordinary" people who buy to let. They own between 1 and 9 houses, perhaps an average of 3 each which means that 20 or so houses in a relatively small area and owned by people I actually know are unavailable to first time buyers.

[mikemiller]

One change in the property market in the last 10 years or so is that now I know 7 or 8 "ordinary" people who buy to let. They own between 1 and 9 houses, perhaps an average of 3 each which means that 20 or so houses in a relatively small area and owned by people I actually know are unavailable to first time buyers.

Sounds like Dexter Blackstock.
Recently fined... (see previous thread)

[WanChaiMiller]

Animal - I agree with you totally on 2019 Victorian Britain. I have mates that are single with decent jobs living in Rotherham who struggle to support themselves independently.

Im going to get lunched for this by gm and others but I blame Thatcher.*

I look at rent and utility bills as a proportion of income now compared to the 1960s. My parents, who lived in a council house, reckoned it was about 30% of their income. Now, its over 60% of income (rent for average 3 bed former council house round here is £550pm, add in utilities and you're close to £800, if you're on minimum wage you aint got much left after covering off the basics).

Selling off council houses and privatising utilities had a huge impact on the rise in these costs.

In the 80s we were told we'd all be householders and shareholders. As an example the bulk of BT shares ended up in hands of private fundholders within a few years of floating.* 60% of council has ended up in the hands of private landlords. The uncertainty in short term rentals for young families must be debilitating.

The average person in the UK didnt benefit. The next generation are paying the price. Home ownership and shareholding for them is a distant dream.

Add to this in 1980 Thatcher used monetrist policy to sqeeze credit in an effort to fight off inflation. The self inflicted recession led to 5m unemployment and the cost was to kill off many major industries hitting Northern cities the hardest.

When the economy recovrred industry looked abroad for production (neoliberal outsourcing) mainly to the far east.* Those jobs were gone forever.

It took major Northern cities like Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, Newcastle and Sheffield the best part of 30 years to recover. The cost was that high skilled jobs and well paid careers were lost and replaced by minimum wage jobs in warehousing, shops, hotels, bars and the service sector. While there is high employment its low paid work.

I dont see the problem as down to the EU. My opinion I know.* I cant help thinking many brexiteers have targeted the wrong villian. And now working class northerners are voting with the Tories again.

[WanChaiMiller]

No not at all , simply not voting .

I want out of the EU but I ain't helping the likes of the ERG or Farage get it done .

Neither am I voting for a party who put it in their 2017 manifesto that they would respect the referendum result and clearly aren't .

There's nobody to vote for so I'll have to sit this one out and where the chips fall they fall .

I voted for Farage in the European Elections as a protest and to give Corbyn a kick up the @ss but a GE is a very different thing altogether .

Incredible situation that both a leaver and remainer cannot find a political party to support.

[WanChaiMiller]

One change in the property market in the last 10 years or so is that now I know 7 or 8 "ordinary" people who buy to let. They own between 1 and 9 houses, perhaps an average of 3 each which means that 20 or so houses in a relatively small area and owned by people I actually know are unavailable to first time buyers.

Salient point at the heart of our housing crisis. And providing expensive short term rentals to turn a profit.

[great_fire]

Sounds like Dexter Blackstock.
Recently fined... (see previous thread)

He's got 12, kindly paid for by Uncle Tony!

[animallittle3]

Incredible situation that both a leaver and remainer cannot find a political party to support.

I suspect millions feel the same WanChai , a very poor state of affairs .