Tree Huggers v Rams thoughts

[MadAmster]

Level at HT was a good reflection of play. I agree that both Yates and Lawrence should have gone. That Yates didn't even get a yellow is ridiculous. Having said that, has Yates gone for his foul the game would have been totally different and the situation that saw Lawro get booked may well never have occurred. It also amazes me that the 2 lunges at Lawro in the 1.5 seconds prior to Lawro's attack weren't penalised. Give either of them and Lawro doesn't "retaliate".

2nd half they started much better than we did and ran the game from minute 45 to 75. After that Derby got back into it but couldnt get the goal to force a draw.

Roos - Had a good game overall. 2 or 3 poor long balls 1st half and one poor rollout in the general direction of Bogle (?) in the 2nd half. A couple of very good saves from Ameobi. Not at fault for their goal.

Bogle - was the best player on the park for 45 minutes. 2nd half they pressured him every time he even looked like getting the ball and it worked a treat for half an hour. Unfortunately for us, one such pressing movement caused him to attempt a pass that he simply got all wrong. Last 15 he got back to business. Hopefully he will learn (I'm positive he will) learn from this and won't make the mistake again. Caught in possession way too often between minutes 45 and 75. He needs to learn that a long ball up to one of the forwards is a valid play. At his age, there will be the odd game when it doesn't go for him. Onwards and upwards.

Davies - defensively good for the most part but still a worry when in possession. If he wasn't Captain I'd be pushing for Evans or Wisdom in there at CH. The skipper won't be dropped IMO.

Clarke - I hope it's not serious but fear it is. He was having another good performance when the Red Dog went in, 2 footed and studs up. If I saw that in a match I would brandish the red card.

Lowe - decent performance and he will get better as he gets more games in. Cracking last 15 from him too.

Shinnie - another good un from him

Bielik - Still tries to do too much when he has the ball as DM IMO. Stuff the pirouettes. You get caught in possession 9 times out of 10 when you do. Go forward if you can but, if not, then play the simple ball. Solid when he moved back to replace the injured Clarke.

Holmes - busy performance but drifted out of the game. For once better defensively than attacking.

Marriott - again busy but it wasn't really until the last quarter that he got the ball he needs and thrives on. On another day would have scored the 2 that were saved.

Lawrence - Jekkyl and Hyde. Tried a lot without success. Double teamed on many occasions. Could easily have had red rather than the yellow he got. Wouldn't have happened if the ref had penalised weither of the two red dog lunges at him one scond previously. Following his early doors push on Cash he was on a tightrope and was fortunate not to "fall off it". Mr Inconsistency I'm afraid.

Martin - Another one who did well when given the right ball. Again only really got it in the last 15.

[mistaram]

MA yes agree Yates should have gone for the tackle on Clarke. Lawrence was very lucky not to go although the second tackle by Worrall was of the ground two foot lunge ,fortunately he didn't connect Does not luck good for Clark . This is were we disagree i wouldn't trust Beilic at centre back takes to many chances for me .Do that in your box your in trouble We need to make as few changes at the back as we can Davies has done ok at right c.b that leaves left c.f. if Clarke is out so left foot needed Having seen Forsyth in his last three U23 I've been impress with him at left cb his heading is very good ,looks fit and can also pass Don't fancy either Wisdom or Evans both right footed

[eddy779h34]

Level at HT was a good reflection of play. I agree that both Yates and Lawrence should have gone. That Yates didn't even get a yellow is ridiculous. Having said that, has Yates gone for his foul the game would have been totally different and the situation that saw Lawro get booked may well never have occurred. It also amazes me that the 2 lunges at Lawro in the 1.5 seconds prior to Lawro's attack weren't penalised. Give either of them and Lawro doesn't "retaliate".

2nd half they started much better than we did and ran the game from minute 45 to 75. After that Derby got back into it but couldnt get the goal to force a draw.

Roos - Had a good game overall. 2 or 3 poor long balls 1st half and one poor rollout in the general direction of Bogle (?) in the 2nd half. A couple of very good saves from Ameobi. Not at fault for their goal.

Bogle - was the best player on the park for 45 minutes. 2nd half they pressured him every time he even looked like getting the ball and it worked a treat for half an hour. Unfortunately for us, one such pressing movement caused him to attempt a pass that he simply got all wrong. Last 15 he got back to business. Hopefully he will learn (I'm positive he will) learn from this and won't make the mistake again. Caught in possession way too often between minutes 45 and 75. He needs to learn that a long ball up to one of the forwards is a valid play. At his age, there will be the odd game when it doesn't go for him. Onwards and upwards.

Davies - defensively good for the most part but still a worry when in possession. If he wasn't Captain I'd be pushing for Evans or Wisdom in there at CH. The skipper won't be dropped IMO.

Clarke - I hope it's not serious but fear it is. He was having another good performance when the Red Dog went in, 2 footed and studs up. If I saw that in a match I would brandish the red card.

Lowe - decent performance and he will get better as he gets more games in. Cracking last 15 from him too.

Shinnie - another good un from him

Bielik - Still tries to do too much when he has the ball as DM IMO. Stuff the pirouettes. You get caught in possession 9 times out of 10 when you do. Go forward if you can but, if not, then play the simple ball. Solid when he moved back to replace the injured Clarke.

Holmes - busy performance but drifted out of the game. For once better defensively than attacking.

Marriott - again busy but it wasn't really until the last quarter that he got the ball he needs and thrives on. On another day would have scored the 2 that were saved.

Lawrence - Jekkyl and Hyde. Tried a lot without success. Double teamed on many occasions. Could easily have had red rather than the yellow he got. Wouldn't have happened if the ref had penalised weither of the two red dog lunges at him one scond previously. Following his early doors push on Cash he was on a tightrope and was fortunate not to "fall off it". Mr Inconsistency I'm afraid.

Martin - Another one who did well when given the right ball. Again only really got it in the last 15.

Not sure I saw what you seem to see in Shinnie
Thought he was never in the game looked out of his depth if I'm honest
Plenty of running but no product
Should of been subbed at least 15 minutes sooner he was a spent force for most of the second half

& Lowe he can't defend surely you can see that? same can be said about Bogel as well
Both full backs can't defend

[MadAmster]

MA yes agree Yates should have gone for the tackle on Clarke. Lawrence was very lucky not to go although the second tackle by Worrall was of the ground two foot lunge ,fortunately he didn't connect Does not luck good for Clark . This is were we disagree i wouldn't trust Beilic at centre back takes to many chances for me .Do that in your box your in trouble We need to make as few changes at the back as we can Davies has done ok at right c.b that leaves left c.f. if Clarke is out so left foot needed Having seen Forsyth in his last three U23 I've been impress with him at left cb his heading is very good ,looks fit and can also pass Don't fancy either Wisdom or Evans both right footed

Fozzy might be an answer but, isn't Davies left footed? Put him back there and play either Wisdom or Evans on the right.

[MadAmster]

Not sure I saw what you seem to see in Shinnie
Thought he was never in the game looked out of his depth if I'm honest
Plenty of running but no product
Should of been subbed at least 15 minutes sooner he was a spent force for most of the second half

& Lowe he can't defend surely you can see that? same can be said about Bogel as well
Both full backs can't defend

Lowe was poor at defending when he went to Aberdeen. Since his return he has defended well, especially in his enforced spell at right back. Bogle has also improved defensively. To coin a phrase, surely you can see that.

I will agree both were less proficient defensively than they have been of late but overall they were well worth the start they will get after the break.

[Andy_Faber]

I've tried to have confidence in Bogle MA, partly due to your enthusiasm for him, but sorry I don't rate him defensively and if we consider him to be an overlapping fullback he is a relative failure there as he can't get his crosses past the first man. I don't rate Lowe much more highly.

But that brings me to the more serious failing, that being that Cocu seems to favour the tactic of defenders tw*tting about in front of their own goal. He's not the first but I hope he's the last, the whole policy is a busted flush because all teams these days do their homework on their opponents and I'm sure have Derby marked down as 'not very good playing across the defence' so they press up with clear benefits. We've got away with such incompetence maybe ten times so far this season so IMO we deserved what we got on saturday and it was/is Cocu's fault.

Regarding Lawrence's yellow incident, correct my probably less comprehensive knowledge of the laws than you, but Lawrence rode two fouls before his own, so as he was never really in control of the ball after the first foul so shouldn't we have been given a free kick once the ball had gone dead? It was a prime place for us after all...

[ramAnag]

I've tried to have confidence in Bogle MA, partly due to your enthusiasm for him, but sorry I don't rate him defensively and if we consider him to be an overlapping fullback he is a relative failure there as he can't get his crosses past the first man. I don't rate Lowe much more highly.

But that brings me to the more serious failing, that being that Cocu seems to favour the tactic of defenders tw*tting about in front of their own goal. He's not the first but I hope he's the last, the whole policy is a busted flush because all teams these days do their homework on their opponents and I'm sure have Derby marked down as 'not very good playing across the defence' so they press up with clear benefits. We've got away with such incompetence maybe ten times so far this season so IMO we deserved what we got on saturday and it was/is Cocu's fault.

Regarding Lawrence's yellow incident, correct my probably less comprehensive knowledge of the laws than you, but Lawrence rode two fouls before his own, so as he was never really in control of the ball after the first foul so shouldn't we have been given a free kick once the ball had gone dead? It was a prime place for us after all...

Have to agree about the ‘tw*tting about in front of their own goal’, Andy...or ‘playing out from the back’ as I think it’s more technically known.
It was the ultimate sin for most of those teachers and coaches in my embryonic playing days and not without good reason.
Now it’s the fashion, but you have to have sufficiently skilful players.
Liverpool do it and get away with it because they’ve got that level of quality. We just haven’t, especially now there’s no Keogh to provide the get out clause and, from the little bits of Leicester against Arsenal I saw last night, neither have the Gunners who seemed intent on committing football suicide every time they tried to bring the ball out of defence.
Play to your strengths seems to be the lesson and we just don’t have the ball playing strength to ‘tw*t about in front of goal’.

[Geoff Parkstone]

In your (and my) embryonic days of playing there were just two full backs, so they couldn't play it across the back as the half backs were more advanced.

[garibaldi]

Yates' standing leg slips whilst making the tackle and therefore was not intentional nor reckless, just a foul.

[MadAmster]

I've tried to have confidence in Bogle MA, partly due to your enthusiasm for him, but sorry I don't rate him defensively and if we consider him to be an overlapping fullback he is a relative failure there as he can't get his crosses past the first man. I don't rate Lowe much more highly.

But that brings me to the more serious failing, that being that Cocu seems to favour the tactic of defenders tw*tting about in front of their own goal. He's not the first but I hope he's the last, the whole policy is a busted flush because all teams these days do their homework on their opponents and I'm sure have Derby marked down as 'not very good playing across the defence' so they press up with clear benefits. We've got away with such incompetence maybe ten times so far this season so IMO we deserved what we got on saturday and it was/is Cocu's fault.

Regarding Lawrence's yellow incident, correct my probably less comprehensive knowledge of the laws than you, but Lawrence rode two fouls before his own, so as he was never really in control of the ball after the first foul so shouldn't we have been given a free kick once the ball had gone dead? It was a prime place for us after all...

Re Bogle: Cracking 1st half. 2nd half they put him under pressure and he lost the ball a lot. THAT wayward "get rid" wasn't his only poor ball in the opening 2/3 of the 2nd half. The only worry to me now is that Forest might have "found him out" and that close attantion is what he will get every game from now on.

Re Lawrence: In post #1 in this thread I wrote "Could easily have had red rather than the yellow he got. Wouldn't have happened if the ref had penalised either of the two red dog lunges at him one scond previously." Ergo, yes, there were two giveable offences one second prior to Lawro's indiscretion, however, the ref either chose not to give them depsite their being offences or to decided they weren't offences. We agree Andy