+ Visit Blackburn Rovers FC Mad for Latest News, Transfer Gossip, Fixtures and Match Results

Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Chapman

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149

    Chapman

    Heard another very damming report from tje Under 23's game the other night. We played Boro away and where shocking on the 1st half.
    Brereton was shocking. But it was his first game back, so we'll need to give him some time. But Harry was taken off at HT as he was woeful 1st half. Not tracking back to help his full back, and just looked devoid of any confidence. Head down, not effective in any way. He had been, last month, in good form for the U23's. But again, looks uninterested & unconfident. We made a big effort and paid money for this lad,and I do just wonder what's happening with him.
    After getting him off, we went on to win 3-1.
    Another point, especially looking at Chelsea yesterday. A young inexperienced manager taking on the most experienced in Hodgson, and completely out classing him tactically. How his young side, who have something to prove, and want to improve completely outplayed their experienced opposition.
    Would Rankin Costello be making more mistakes than Bennett? Who makes numerous every match and costs us a goal most games.
    Would Butterworth or Vale have less impact than Armstrong or Graham when both are doing what they do most weeks this season.? I like Gallagher up front. But to be playing him up top on his own is criminal. It's Nov now, why hasn't TM seen that it's simply not working.
    The young lad needs help.
    Dack is either choosing to drop back a d be completely ineffective. Or he's being told to. Worrying he starts every game though. Again, it's Nov, it's not working. We need to change this system. And that's where I think the real problem is. We haven't got another way. Personally I wouldn't play Dack next game. Holtby is better, play him instead. And play a striker up front with SG. Not Armstrong, not Graham. Going back to him every week is killing us. As is playing Downing. He did nothing last week. But walks in yesterday. I don't particularly like Rothwell. But to not play him after last week is just unfair.
    But I'm looking at these young lads, Rankin Costello, Buckley, Butterworh, Vale and I'm unsure they would be doing any worse. The experienced ones at our club are holding us back massively.
    Last edited by champs95; 10-11-2019 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,179
    I have never understood the clamour for Chapman and don't know why we bought him.
    As for our youngsters you simply can't compare them to those at Chelsea.
    Dack does so little and frustrates me.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by seventwo View Post
    I have never understood the clamour for Chapman and don't know why we bought him.
    As for our youngsters you simply can't compare them to those at Chelsea.
    Dack does so little and frustrates me.
    He was a match winner the last time he was here on loan until he got injured. He is the only out & out winger we have so gives us something different. And TM made a big effort to get him. I'm just wondering what's going on behind the scenes.
    I never thought Abraham was that good in the Champ, and he now looks a very good Prem striker, playing with confidence. I'm not comparing like for like. We are playing 2nd rate footballers in the 2nd tier so I'm just wondering if the likes of Rankin Costello could be any worse than Bennett? And is Vale not a better bet than Graham who we continually keep going back to, and keep getting the same result. My point being, like we the Chelsea young lads playing, we could be benefiting from that. Travis is our mom on a consistent basis. And he could've come on earlier I always thought.
    Dack is extremely frustrating, and just isn't the same player without his mate DG up front in form, playing the ball into him, and last season he was in a position to score goals. Because he had the perfect foil. Sadly it's another year later, and DG can't do that anymore. Dack now is completely ineffective. And we haven't figured out we need another system to play.
    I still think the biggest one we miss from last dead on, who always seemed to make us tick was Reed. We desperately need someone like him to play with Travis.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,760
    It's all speculation, though, Champs.
    Of course, Vale, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, etc might improve things dramatically. The other (at least equal) possibility is that they won't!
    There is a fundamental problem for all of us: we don't see training.
    Are you genuinely suggesting that these youngsters are consistently outperforming the experienced players in training, in front of Mowbray, but he is still too stubborn to play them?
    It seems very unlikely to me. Also, Barr has been less than happy with some of them recently, which is less than a ringing endorsement.
    I do agree that Rankin-Costello must be very close, but Vale and Butterworth being definitely a better bet than people like Graham, Armstrong and Dack, I just don't buy. It's pure guesswork.

    As far as Chapman is concerned, I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but there is clearly something not right. TM went to a lot of effort to get him back, and now...?
    I assumed that as soon as he was fit, we would be seeing him for the final 30 minutes of games, as before.
    Last edited by AucklandRover; 10-11-2019 at 11:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    It's all speculation, though, Champs.
    Of course, Vale, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, etc might improve things dramatically. The other (at least equal) possibility is that they won't!
    There is a fundamental problem for all of us: we don't see training.
    Are you genuinely suggesting that these youngsters are consistently outperforming the experienced players in training, in front of Mowbray, but he is still too stubborn to play them?
    It seems very unlikely to me. Also, Barr has been less than happy with some of them recently, which is less than a ringing endorsement.
    I do agree that Rankin-Costello must be very close, but Vale and Butterworth being definitely a better bet than people like Graham, Armstrong and Dack, I just don't buy. It's pure guesswork.

    As far as Chapman is concerned, I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but there is clearly something not right. TM went to a lot of effort to get him back, and now...?
    I assumed that as soon as he was fit, we would be seeing him for the final 30 minutes of games, as before.
    Aye training!! Bennett must be one wonderful trainer? One of the best of all time. As he can't be getting picked based on his performance on the pitch every weekend. So it must play massive importance.
    I wish it didn't. As it's not working picking them that way.
    Travis is our best and most consistent player. He wouldn't be playing now if Smallwood hadn't have got sent off at Sheff Utd. We'd probably still be stuck with him playing now of he hadn't have done that. I bet Smallwood trained very well. Maybe it's worth trying something different? Bearing in mind we are lower mid table, and it's been a largely disappointing season? Or do we just stick to what's not working and just hope it turns round? Keep picking Dosbibg every week, Keep going back to DG and the answer will continue to be the same.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    It's all speculation, though, Champs.
    Of course, Vale, Rankin-Costello, Butterworth, etc might improve things dramatically. The other (at least equal) possibility is that they won't!
    There is a fundamental problem for all of us: we don't see training.
    Are you genuinely suggesting that these youngsters are consistently outperforming the experienced players in training, in front of Mowbray, but he is still too stubborn to play them?
    It seems very unlikely to me. Also, Barr has been less than happy with some of them recently, which is less than a ringing endorsement.
    I do agree that Rankin-Costello must be very close, but Vale and Butterworth being definitely a better bet than people like Graham, Armstrong and Dack, I just don't buy. It's pure guesswork.

    As far as Chapman is concerned, I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but there is clearly something not right. TM went to a lot of effort to get him back, and now...?
    I assumed that as soon as he was fit, we would be seeing him for the final 30 minutes of games, as before.

    I have always had this rule which can be applied to this poor season we are having, and general life.
    What is the definition of madness? Doing the same thing every single day and expecting something different to happen.
    That's what I feel after watching us every week.
    We have a decent mid-table side, with some good talented players, and some great young players.
    We have a very poor team, with no identifiable way of playing. No real system that gets results. No plan B. No flexibility in the formation. Most of the forward players are being asked to do jobs that simply can't do anymore. Like DG, and are simply a year older, and are unable to perform anymore to the standards he set himself. Going back to him around the hour mark every single week isn't working. It wont just magically start working now, or in the next 10 games. Keep going back to him, you will keep getting the same results. Plus its killing Dack, who is suffering, and its killing our attacking system.
    We don't have a good team, we just have a good set of players. We aren't organised, we aren't strong defensively. We are poor going forward, our experienced players aren't giving us any stability, and our good young players aren't getting a game, to make way for poor experienced players who are adding nothing. A young player (Travis) is by far our most consistent player.

    I mean, this could all change but how? I can hope, and pray, but I'm not seeing anything at all to make me think this will all sort itself out. We look a shambles if I am being honest. Week to week. We did outplay Reading, that and Hull away where the only two times we played well all season and got a result. I do think that is the main problem, its just all too inconsistent. We play well in little 10/15 mins spells in a game. Then either give a goal away poorly, or get no luck and get a dodgy pen awarded against us, which happens alot when you are down the bottom.

    I really do feel this bunch of players are maybe sick of hearing the same voice. And that voice is no longer getting through to them. And its appearing that message is going through all our ranks down to the young lads.

    I always had a strong feeling that at the end of this season, TM would move upstairs, which is where we want and need him, and off the training pitch where I feel he has really run his course. He is tactically miles behind younger, better managers. Like Preston's young manager, who is tactically astute.
    I think as a coach TM is way too limited. Good when things are going well, like a rabbit caught in the headlights when things go wrong. And unable to re-address the issues coming up every week, its like ground-hog day.
    And finally, once any manager at any level starts coming out and naming players and blaming them, you know there are problems. He did it with Raya and Mulgrew last season. He has done it with Walton and Johnson this season. That's poor. You don't do that. Deal with it inside the club. Not in the media.
    To add balance, he has been very very unlucky with injuries, which as an impact. And also bad penalty decisions seem to go against us almost every week. None of that helps. No new manager coming in would be able to change any of that. But could they organise this bunch of lads into a team? As TM seems unable to do so.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    also -
    Are you genuinely suggesting that these youngsters are consistently outperforming the experienced players in training, in front of Mowbray, but he is still too stubborn to play them?

    Now I am NOT suggesting this. But I will ask you this in response. Last season you you think Travis was a poor footballer? And this season overnight he just became a decent, consistent player? As He saw Travis everyday in training. And a far inferior player in Smallwood who has never been as good in his entire career? But was opting for the far inferior player? Was that stubborness? Or poor management? Or blindness? As its one of them.
    You cant have it both ways Auks

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,760
    I'm not trying o have it any way.
    I just have an inbuilt suspicion of this idea that comes up in every club when things aren't going well:
    We SHOULD be doing whatever the current manager ISN'T doing.

    Also, people throw into the ring the names of "good young managers" who happen to be doing well at a particular time. The clamour for Hurst and Cook we heard during our bad spell in D.1 looks a bit silly now. And what about the young managers with fresh tactics and ideas whose teams aren't doing well?
    It just isn't as simple as grabbing at someone because of temporary success. It is an unchalllengeable fact that the vast, vast majority of managers have bad spells in their careers, as well as good ones. There isn't this magic elite who have it cracked (or, if there is, it's tiny - and we certainly can't afford one of them!).

    Finally, I think it's dangerous to generalise too much about even the near future. Things look bad at present and a defeat by Barnsley might be the final nail in Mowbray's coffin. However, what happens if we - for example - pick up 8 points from our next 4 games?
    Everything will look different. Will Mowbray suddenly have become "good" again. Whatever that even means...probably not, because there are far more factors involved in the outcome of a football match than decisions made in advance by one man.
    For example, it seems to be pretty generally agreed (even by Leeds fans!) that about 50% of referees would not have awarded that penalty. Leeds had four shots on target - including the penalty. Without that decision, a nil-nil draw would have been quite likely.
    Pure speculation, of course, but my point is that an OUTSIDE factor had a major impact. This is why I have always believed that "It's all down to the manager" is a cheap and inadequate way of analysing a complex and dynamic sport.
    Of course, the manager carries the can. I have no problem with that, but it's certainly not the whole story.
    Last edited by AucklandRover; 11-11-2019 at 10:05 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    7,179
    TM may send him out in loan but also says he's getting nearer to the 1st team squad.
    It's a matter of maturity and taking the game seriously rather than doing a few dribbles and thinking that's enough.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    2,928
    It's a case of the unknown.
    It's great thinking he will be the new Ripley or duff but we just have to trust that he isn't ready or good enough for the step up.
    For all we know he could be like the majority of players we have and that's largely inconsistent.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by robinrover View Post
    It's a case of the unknown.
    It's great thinking he will be the new Ripley or duff but we just have to trust that he isn't ready or good enough for the step up.
    For all we know he could be like the majority of players we have and that's largely inconsistent.
    Robin - given what we've seen over the last few years, "Largely Inconsistent" should replace "Arte Et Labore" as the club's motto.
    (God knows what the Latin for that is! Actually, I've just Googled it. It's "Late Repugnans" - sound more like a description of Neil Warnock to me).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    6,363
    Quote Originally Posted by champs95 View Post
    Heard another very damming report from tje Under 23's game the other night. We played Boro away and where shocking on the 1st half.
    Brereton was shocking. But it was his first game back, so we'll need to give him some time. But Harry was taken off at HT as he was woeful 1st half. Not tracking back to help his full back, and just looked devoid of any confidence. Head down, not effective in any way. He had been, last month, in good form for the U23's. But again, looks uninterested & unconfident. We made a big effort and paid money for this lad,and I do just wonder what's happening with him.
    After getting him off, we went on to win 3-1.
    Another point, especially looking at Chelsea yesterday. A young inexperienced manager taking on the most experienced in Hodgson, and completely out classing him tactically. How his young side, who have something to prove, and want to improve completely outplayed their experienced opposition.
    Would Rankin Costello be making more mistakes than Bennett? Who makes numerous every match and costs us a goal most games.
    Would Butterworth or Vale have less impact than Armstrong or Graham when both are doing what they do most weeks this season.? I like Gallagher up front. But to be playing him up top on his own is criminal. It's Nov now, why hasn't TM seen that it's simply not working.
    The young lad needs help.
    Dack is either choosing to drop back a d be completely ineffective. Or he's being told to. Worrying he starts every game though. Again, it's Nov, it's not working. We need to change this system. And that's where I think the real problem is. We haven't got another way. Personally I wouldn't play Dack next game. Holtby is better, play him instead. And play a striker up front with SG. Not Armstrong, not Graham. Going back to him every week is killing us. As is playing Downing. He did nothing last week. But walks in yesterday. I don't particularly like Rothwell. But to not play him after last week is just unfair.
    But I'm looking at these young lads, Rankin Costello, Buckley, Butterworh, Vale and I'm unsure they would be doing any worse. The experienced ones at our club are holding us back massively.
    Kiss of death for Dack and Downing.....keep up the good work. Dack 2 and Downing 1 against Barnsley. Who will you criticise next ?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,760
    I had great hopes of Chapman - especially as an impact sub. - and, of course, Mowbray did too.
    I'm not sure we'll ever hear the full story of where it's gone wrong.
    We were very poor in midfield against Barnsley, but Dack (who didn't, actually have a particularly good game, overall) bailed us out with his instincts.
    I tend to be cautious by nature, and if I was picking the team against Brentford, I might go for:
    Walton (with extra glue on his gloves)
    Nyambe Tosin Lenihan Downing
    Bennett Travis Evans Holtby
    Dack Graham/Gallagher.

    In that No.9 position, I reckon TM has to bite the bullet. Either Gallagher is a centre-forward or he's not. Give him six games in that shirt and let's see. If, Mowbray, on the other doesn't believe he yet has the attributes for that position, he should be realistic and drop him altogether - reverting to the tried and tested DG.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by test View Post
    Kiss of death for Dack and Downing.....keep up the good work. Dack 2 and Downing 1 against Barnsley. Who will you criticise next ?
    Bennett

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    I had great hopes of Chapman - especially as an impact sub. - and, of course, Mowbray did too.
    I'm not sure we'll ever hear the full story of where it's gone wrong.
    We were very poor in midfield against Barnsley, but Dack (who didn't, actually have a particularly good game, overall) bailed us out with his instincts.
    I tend to be cautious by nature, and if I was picking the team against Brentford, I might go for:
    Walton (with extra glue on his gloves)
    Nyambe Tosin Lenihan Downing
    Bennett Travis Evans Holtby
    Dack Graham/Gallagher.

    In that No.9 position, I reckon TM has to bite the bullet. Either Gallagher is a centre-forward or he's not. Give him six games in that shirt and let's see. If, Mowbray, on the other doesn't believe he yet has the attributes for that position, he should be realistic and drop him altogether - reverting to the tried and tested DG.
    I thought Dack was poor. But scored 2 goals which got us 3 points. Such is football at times. Both scruffy. The 2nd, he should've burried the first header.
    Downing scored and did nothing else. That's a pretty fair assememt.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    10,149
    Quote Originally Posted by test View Post
    Kiss of death for Dack and Downing.....keep up the good work. Dack 2 and Downing 1 against Barnsley. Who will you criticise next ?
    Dack was having a far bigger impact on games last season. While he got 2 today he's a the bottom of the league, I still didn't feel he played well. I'll take 2 goals of course. But that doesn't happen every week or nearly enough this season. That's been half the problem. It's not all down to him. I think it's the system.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,760
    Quote Originally Posted by champs95 View Post
    Dack was having a far bigger impact on games last season. While he got 2 today he's a the bottom of the league, I still didn't feel he played well. I'll take 2 goals of course. But that doesn't happen every week or nearly enough this season. That's been half the problem. It's not all down to him. I think it's the system.
    To some extent, possibly, but we have missed a high percentage of half-chances. Those are often what make the difference across a season.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •