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Thread: Derby(home)predictions

  1. #11
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    The Dutch league is about our Div1. With Ajax thrown in for good measure. It's a weak league.

  2. #12
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    Most Rovers fans thought someone like Hughton would be a good choice. Very far removed from someone like Cocu.

  3. #13
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    Williams playing at centre half was a disaster. The common deminator in last season's bad run, and the majority of this season's, is was losing Lenihan. And having to play Williams at centre half. As soon as he was taken out of the side (due to injury) We start winning. He didn't make a good fist of it at all. He was weak, got easily bullied, gave pens away (like Bennett did) and was pretty poor. Now he isn't playing at centre half we win most weeks.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by champs95 View Post
    Williams playing at centre half was a disaster. The common deminator in last season's bad run, and the majority of this season's, is was losing Lenihan. And having to play Williams at centre half. As soon as he was taken out of the side (due to injury) We start winning. He didn't make a good fist of it at all. He was weak, got easily bullied, gave pens away (like Bennett did) and was pretty poor. Now he isn't playing at centre half we win most weeks.
    Champs - that is COMPLETELY selective. Williams actually played very well in that position when he first made the switch.

    As for this statement of yours: "Nothing at all about being good one week, or bad the next..." - well, I am completely gobsmacked!
    Seriously? The form of individual players makes no difference? It is ALL down to what the manager decides in advance? No other factors count at all?
    Sorry - that is complete bunkum, and flies in the face of common sense.
    When various players this season have missed glorious scoring opportunities, was it BECAUSE they had been "started" in the wrong positions?
    And could you identify the games where Dack was played out of position?
    I notice you completely ignore DOWNING being played "out of position" and doing well!
    Presumably, if - as you agree - "...In any job, public services excluded, the manager is entirely responsible for the performance and results of their department...", Mowbray was also responsible for the two poor penalty decisions that cost us points this season.

  5. #15
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    As for this statement of yours: "Nothing at all about being good one week, or bad the next..." - well, I am completely gobsmacked!
    You are completely taking what I responded to you with, and twisting it.
    YOU keep going on about managers going from BAD to GOOD every week. Nobody else has mentioned that.
    I'm not talking about players on the pitch. I am not talking about form.
    I am merely responding to you saying managers go from good to bad every week.
    My opinion is they don't. And I disagree. You are putting words in my mouth that I simply haven't said.

    Williams actually played very well in that position when he first made the switch.
    Your opinion which you are entitled to. But not mine. I felt he was weak, I felt he got easily bullied, and the bad run was down to things like Lenihan not playing, and him being the leader at the back. Which he isn't. He is a left back no matter what he thinks he is. Injury meant we had little choice to play him. But things improved dramatically (and the team performance) since he got injured. We have won every game while he hasn't been playing, and strangely enough, we look a better defensive unit. Hence we aren't now losing games. Its not a matter of opinion, that's fact.

    And could you identify the games where Dack was played out of position?

    Most fans who I speak to all agree, he has been dropping way too deep. Up to Barnsley last week. So covering about 10/12 games. I'd say roughly 10/12 games he has been dropping way too deep. And having no real impact on the game. Now he is scoring tap ins from 5 yards most weeks. Why? Because he is playing closer to the striker. Like last season when he was effective. You don't score 5 yard tap in's if you are dropping back to the midfield to get the ball. And also, you isolating the striker.

    I notice you completely ignore DOWNING being played "out of position" and doing well!

    I said it after the Brentford game. While I thought he was ok, he isn't the answer long term. In an away game up against a pacey winger, I fear he would be like Bennett, playing at RB. This has that situation written all over it. He comes in, does ok, then ends up playing there every week. Even, like Bennett at RB, if it starts costing us. He isn't the answer long-term. He is doing ok there over the last two games vrs bottom of the league and a woeful Stoke side. Don't get carried away. I'm not.

    Presumably, if - as you agree - "...In any job, public services excluded, the manager is entirely responsible for the performance and results of their department...", Mowbray was also responsible for the two poor penalty decisions that cost us points this season

    Someone else actually said that, take it up with them? I just agreed. Because I do agree.
    I manage a team of 8 people. If one of them performs badly and it affects my team and our performance, that's MY responsibility. And I am accountable. I don't feel a highly paid football manager is exempt from this rule that applies to everyone else.

    Mowbray was also responsible for the two poor penalty decisions that cost us points this season.
    When and where did I say this? Or infact anyone?
    He IS however responsible for picking Bennett at RB and staying with him. Bennett kept giving pens away. The manager isn't out on the pitch, making those mistakes. That's Bennett. Stop playing him out of position, where he gives pens away alot.
    And now he has? Guess what, suprise suprise ....an upturn in form? And playing Bennett in his actual position? And guess what? He looks pretty solid again.
    Who makes those team choices? The manager. No Bennett at RB, no pens given away. That didn't happen once, that happened quite alot.
    Armstrong as a central striker? Nope, doesn't work. Play him in his best position, on the wing, where he is starting to look ok.
    Playing SG as a winger, nope, doesn't work, play him as a central striker, where he will start to improve. Messing about swapping and changing the likes of Armstrong and SG.

    Some, not all, fans thought there had been too much messing about going on.
    Now it appears we have gone back to basics. Dack plays as a second striker, and now scores goals. A winger is a winger.

  6. #16
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    Champs - you are the one twisting words. I have never said that managers go from good to bad every week. MY whole point is that it is about far more than just the manager. I am actually SAYING that a manager is what he is! He carries the can for the overall results and the long-term pattern, but it is simply ludicrous to argue that nothing else matters. A football match can turn on a dozen things and most of them are completely beyond the control of the man in the dug-out.

    I have been calling for Nyambe's return for some time, but you are so determined to blame one set of factors (the manager's input) that you are more or less suggesting that we couldn't possible play play well until the last week's changes were made. JUST NOT TRUE.
    We played well in a number of games under the previous formation:Fulham, Boro, the second half at West Brom, Reading, Millwall, Forest. And Bennett did NOT play badly in all those (or some of the other) games! What has plagued us most is inconsistency.
    Of course Mowbray has to carry some of the blame. I think it would have been much simpler to go for 4-4-2, but he has insisted on this formation with three in front of midfield, including trying a number of different people - unsuccessfully, for the most part - in this "wide forward" position.
    As for Williams, he definitely did strengthen the centre-back area when we were missing Tosin. You can't pretend he didn't. His tenure included four clean sheets!
    I just think it is arrogant and a total rewrite of history to say, "We have won three games in a row because Mowbray is finally listening to us."
    That totally ignores what I have said above, and it also ignores the fact that our players have been woefully up-and-down in form. Even this week, Rothwell was nothing like as good against Stoke as he was against Brentford.
    You can't pretend that this is not a factor, or - worse still - that Mowbray is "to blame" for an individual's inconsistency. That does seem to be what you are doing with Dack, for example. You appear to be suggesting that in the games where he dropped too deep, he had NOT been selected as the No. 10. You know that's not the case. Those were mainly games where we were under the cosh and he was out of form himself. He was dropping back too far because he is the kind of player who is desperate to influence a game (which is one of the things we like about him), but in doing so, he was removing himself from the areas where he is most dangerous.

    I made it clear before the Barnsley match that I thought TM was one or two defeats away from the sack. I wasn't even complaining about it. That is the nature of the job. However, you will never get me to accept this nonsense that "it's all down to the manager."
    Nobody who puts that case forward has ever successfully explained how, if THAT is true, almost every manager in existence has failures on his record as well as successes.
    How do you categorise Ranieri, Mourinho, McCarthy, Hodgson, Moyes, etc, etc?
    To ignore all the other factors that go into the difference between winning and losing seems crazy to me.
    Confidence...form... conditions...injuries...luck...refereeing...the other team...the other manager...clash or match-up of styles on the day...simple difference in quality...
    Are you really saying that none of those things influence the outcome of a game - that it is the only what a manager does in advance that matters?
    None of this denies the manager's overall responsibility in the sense you mean - with the people under your charge at work - but that is simplistic. You may be in charge, but if one of them fiddles the books or puts diesel in instead of petrol, it is NOT your fault. In the same way, if Mowbray has put Dack at centre-back, but he then misses an open goal form three metres, it is nothing to do with the position Mowbray gave him at the start!

  7. #17
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    Bast@rds 2 sheep sh@ggers 1

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AucklandRover View Post
    Champs - you are the one twisting words. I have never said that managers go from good to bad every week. MY whole point is that it is about far more than just the manager. I am actually SAYING that a manager is what he is! He carries the can for the overall results and the long-term pattern, but it is simply ludicrous to argue that nothing else matters. A football match can turn on a dozen things and most of them are completely beyond the control of the man in the dug-out.

    I have been calling for Nyambe's return for some time, but you are so determined to blame one set of factors (the manager's input) that you are more or less suggesting that we couldn't possible play play well until the last week's changes were made. JUST NOT TRUE.
    We played well in a number of games under the previous formation:Fulham, Boro, the second half at West Brom, Reading, Millwall, Forest. And Bennett did NOT play badly in all those (or some of the other) games! What has plagued us most is inconsistency.
    Of course Mowbray has to carry some of the blame. I think it would have been much simpler to go for 4-4-2, but he has insisted on this formation with three in front of midfield, including trying a number of different people - unsuccessfully, for the most part - in this "wide forward" position.
    As for Williams, he definitely did strengthen the centre-back area when we were missing Tosin. You can't pretend he didn't. His tenure included four clean sheets!
    I just think it is arrogant and a total rewrite of history to say, "We have won three games in a row because Mowbray is finally listening to us."
    That totally ignores what I have said above, and it also ignores the fact that our players have been woefully up-and-down in form. Even this week, Rothwell was nothing like as good against Stoke as he was against Brentford.
    You can't pretend that this is not a factor, or - worse still - that Mowbray is "to blame" for an individual's inconsistency. That does seem to be what you are doing with Dack, for example. You appear to be suggesting that in the games where he dropped too deep, he had NOT been selected as the No. 10. You know that's not the case. Those were mainly games where we were under the cosh and he was out of form himself. He was dropping back too far because he is the kind of player who is desperate to influence a game (which is one of the things we like about him), but in doing so, he was removing himself from the areas where he is most dangerous.

    I made it clear before the Barnsley match that I thought TM was one or two defeats away from the sack. I wasn't even complaining about it. That is the nature of the job. However, you will never get me to accept this nonsense that "it's all down to the manager."
    Nobody who puts that case forward has ever successfully explained how, if THAT is true, almost every manager in existence has failures on his record as well as successes.
    How do you categorise Ranieri, Mourinho, McCarthy, Hodgson, Moyes, etc, etc?
    To ignore all the other factors that go into the difference between winning and losing seems crazy to me.
    Confidence...form... conditions...injuries...luck...refereeing...the other team...the other manager...clash or match-up of styles on the day...simple difference in quality...
    Are you really saying that none of those things influence the outcome of a game - that it is the only what a manager does in advance that matters?
    None of this denies the manager's overall responsibility in the sense you mean - with the people under your charge at work - but that is simplistic. You may be in charge, but if one of them fiddles the books or puts diesel in instead of petrol, it is NOT your fault. In the same way, if Mowbray has put Dack at centre-back, but he then misses an open goal form three metres, it is nothing to do with the position Mowbray gave him at the start!
    You have your opinion, and I have mine. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed.
    I cant really go into all of those finer points as we are just going round in circles.
    If I say one thing, you will disagree and tell me why I am wrong.
    I will not change my opinion, and you have your own views on things.
    I am a little miffed, as I am not the only person on this page alone saying this.

    I thought we all agreed that it had reached critical point for TM. And that wasn't all down to bad luck. Things were not right, no matter what anyone says.
    You decided that in November, and said so. I spotted it in August and was pretty vocal about the mounting issues back then, after a game. We had a brief upturn, then settled into a really bad spell. Which is why I am not getting carried away now. I am glad we have seemingly turned a corner. That too isn't all down to luck. I feel he is just doing sensible things now, which includes his starting 11. And playing people where they are effective.
    He wasn't doing that earlier in the season.

    We will never ever agree Aucks, we see things completely different. Maybe its just best for both to agree to disagree on all matters moving forward. I dont need anyone telling me every single opinion I have is wrong, on a game I have played at a pretty high level, and watched live my entire life.

  9. #19
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    1-1

  10. #20
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    Rovers 2 Derby 1

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