Failure to build

[hmac]

No not the stadium this time....

If you look at the manager and team 3.5 years ago when we put the ****e down we followed on by 3 years in the Premier League but simply got worse, in management and in the playing squad.

Hartley now looks like a genius, Bain for all his faults would be a hero, and this goes on right through the team.

How is it possible to just get worse and worse and worse and nobody does anything about it?

[deecom]

Hartley was doing ok until his last season when he made terrible signings, eg the duds from Inverness etc.
Even Gary Harkins told him his signings were shyte !

It's just like a malaise at Dens, Nelms is a failure an I cannot understand why Tim Keyes does not make a change.
I know they are good friends, but why let your investment deteriorate ?

I've never understood what the yanks were wanting by investing in Dundee fc.
To be fair they have put their money in, but supporters concerns seem to be ignored.

Mcpake was a great signing for Dundee, and scored. Captains goals, but he is out of his depth and needs to go.

I'm not optimistic of what's going to happen next.

[shaded]

our club failed to kick on after the greet yir eyes oot derby
we shouldv been into every school off the park

the fans have long said they never wanted tippy tappy style shhyte football,we suffered that tail end of hartley and all mcann era and then mcpake added to it by playing 1 up front while that generated a single shot at goal per match usually .

totally pissed off with 1 up front and dont think im alone

inshort the negative managers tactics help everything go from bad to worse

[Returnofrros]

Club ethos us all wrong.

Failure is acceptable, ****e atmosphere acceptable, ****e surroundings acceptable, fans no happy acceptable, bullied from council acceptable.

We need as much fight off the park as we do own not acceptance of drivel

[BCram]

No not the stadium this time....

If you look at the manager and team 3.5 years ago when we put the ****e down we followed on by 3 years in the Premier League but simply got worse, in management and in the playing squad.

Hartley now looks like a genius, Bain for all his faults would be a hero, and this goes on right through the team.

How is it possible to just get worse and worse and worse and nobody does anything about it?

Hmac, great question. Is the answer contained in the way they took over? I have only ever been involved as an online supporter so I have no first hand experience of what happened other than the Gardyne Road meeting where the proposal to accept the investment from Tim Keyes was accepted in exchange for a majority shareholding. It seems to me that the then Board of the club did the best they could by getting A shares which held FPS to keep the name, colours, Board rep etc.

It does not seem to have worked and John Nelms appears to have struggled to understand the motives and ambitions of the Dundonians who have been involved with our club. DFCSS wanted to create a fund to buy back Dens but it was not given approval by FPS. From there it has just gone backwards. I think the background of distrust has gradually seeped through into the wider support via fans forums. This is not meant to be a criticism, rather I see it as a statement of fact.

There is only one side discussing the club, the supporters. Although there are fans who do support FPS and speak up for them it isn't the same as official contacts. From the Americans point of view we must seem like ungrateful children who have been given almost everything they have agitated for.

I think they need to speak about the football side of things. They binned Hartley when he admitted he was at a loss how to fix things, they bought into McCann's approach to find quality players in lower leagues and turn them into valuable assets, they binned him possibly just when he had actually got the team moving in the right direction, they hired an experienced manager McIntyre, but completely missed the problem with Dodds, and they allowed him to bring in his own players, Davies not kicking a ball was the outstanding example of how McIntyres recruitment policy worked, and his binning of Kamara shredded what was left of the fans assessment of his managerial ability.

I think the Americans then took a look at McPake and they were sold on the combination of him and Nicholl. Shiny new lieutenant supported by grizzled old sergeant major. The expectations when Dorrans and Hemmings were signed changed from this season Friday m being a building exercise to trying to get promotion at the first time of asking.

I think that by supporting McPake,initially as a work in progress who was building a team for the future, they failed to confirm this attitude and as a result expectations have been raised to levels that seem to me to be unrealistic. If we can get to the promotion playoffs we will have meaningful games right to the end of the season. If we fail to get promoted they might find that there is a good degree of optimism for next season, provided the price was kept very competitive and there was some deal that early bird renewals would be at the Championship price structure.

Basically I think the Americans have not understood Dundee fans and they have been badly let down by the managers they have selected. I think they should call in McPake and Nicholl and ask them why things are so feeble on the pitch. Ask them for a detailed report of the thinking behind the team selections and what they were expecting their players to do. They need to show, publicly that they do care about the football team and how it is performing.

They have to double down on their investment in McPake and Nicholl by confirming publicly that they are still on course to achieve their original plan to build a team that is challenging for a promotion playoff spot.

It won't be popular, 90% of TDB Forum want McPake relieved of his duties, but I think they need to draw a line with the past and prove that they have a plan that is, to date, on track and the football management team is not acting without close overview by the Americans.

[islaydarkblue]

Hartley was doing ok until his last season when he made terrible signings, eg the duds from Inverness etc.
Even Gary Harkins told him his signings were shyte !

It's just like a malaise at Dens, Nelms is a failure an I cannot understand why Tim Keyes does not make a change.
I know they are good friends, but why let your investment deteriorate ?

I've never understood what the yanks were wanting by investing in Dundee fc.
To be fair they have put their money in, but supporters concerns seem to be ignored.

Mcpake was a great signing for Dundee, and scored. Captains goals, but he is out of his depth and needs to go.

I'm not optimistic of what's going to happen next.

Hi Deecom,
From memory the Yanks wanted to invest in Dundee Football Club because we were debt free. Sadly they did not do their homework and discover why we were debt free. If they had done so they would soon have realised that it was as a result of us recently exiting Administration 2 with all our debts apart from Football Debt and paying the cost of the Administrators fees having been cleared with a payout of 6p in the pound.
I think that the Yanks had considered investing in St Mirren because they were also debt free due to having sold Love Street to Tesco for a new supermarket which eventually was never built. There is now housing on the site of the former Love Street football ground.