I was born under a union jack

[Returnofrros]

Not sure I mentioned religion or creed as the reason for embarrassment but it seems some have assumed this.

My embarrassment is, and has always been, that the union flag (not union jack) is a symbol of a union that I don't feel our nation should be any part of and our club should certainly steer well clear of it - my opinion and if others have different opinions I respect those opinions even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

I never carried a union flag, ever, and never will.

You were in the forces?

[Returnofrros]

Do you know where he'll is

He'll is tannadice

You've only got to cross the road

Your into paradise

Oh I was born under a union jack, a union union jack.

[troodee1893]

Do you know where he'll is

He'll is tannadice

You've only got to cross the road

Your into paradise

Oh I was born under a union jack, a union union jack.

Totally agree that that version is fine, sang it plenty of times myself many moons ago. It was the other version that was slipped in by an element of our support c. 50 years ago that was more than a bit iffy!

[hmac]

There may have been different words at times but I remember subsequent lines being sung by a lot of our support as:-

Do you know where hell is,
Hell is in The Falls,
Heaven's up the Shankhill Road,
We'll guard old Derry's walls............................................. ....or words to those effect.

IMO right out of the Rangers song book and yes embarrassing!

Never heard that once in all my years as a Dundee fan.

It was always

Do you know where hell is,
Hell is tannadice,
You’ve only got to cross the road,
To enter paradise.

And I’m 49!

[hmac]

Not sure I mentioned religion or creed as the reason for embarrassment but it seems some have assumed this.

My embarrassment is, and has always been, that the union flag (not union jack) is a symbol of a union that I don't feel our nation should be any part of and our club should certainly steer well clear of it - my opinion and if others have different opinions I respect those opinions even if I don't necessarily agree with them.

I never carried a union flag, ever, and never will.

You say hang your heads in shame and that you respect those opinions.

Like it or not we are joined in a union. Never mind the politics of mad Boris, Many many families and friendships across these islands have been built on our similarities. I would feel very ashamed to abandon the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland to decades of Tory rule simply because it was easier for Scotland to run away than stand against poverty, injustice and tyranny.

I’m also unsure which part of our history we are hoping to get back to pre-union? Is it the part where the clans were all fighting each other? Or is it some other glorious romantic notion we’re clinging to?

We had self determination quite recently and just because some people didn’t like that result we can’t be demanding it every time we think there can be a different result.

I’m Scottish and British and proud to be both.

[troodee1893]

Never heard that once in all my years as a Dundee fan.

It was always

Do you know where hell is,
Hell is tannadice,
You’ve only got to cross the road,
To enter paradise.

And I’m 49!

I agree it was always those words in the last 40 to 50 years. I am a lot older and am talking about the period around 1970 when, unfortunately, the words in my earlier post were used by SOME of the support only. Mostly daft wee laddies right enough. The words you quote are great and hopefully sung again in the future by our support but although still a regular my singing days are in the past!!

[troodee1893]

You say hang your heads in shame and that you respect those opinions.

Like it or not we are joined in a union. Never mind the politics of mad Boris, Many many families and friendships across these islands have been built on our similarities. I would feel very ashamed to abandon the people of England, Wales and Northern Ireland to decades of Tory rule simply because it was easier for Scotland to run away than stand against poverty, injustice and tyranny.

I’m also unsure which part of our history we are hoping to get back to pre-union? Is it the part where the clans were all fighting each other? Or is it some other glorious romantic notion we’re clinging to?

We had self determination quite recently and just because some people didn’t like that result we can’t be demanding it every time we think there can be a different result.

I’m Scottish and British and proud to be both.

Good post. Your last sentence is alien to a lot of SNP fanatics who cannot conceive of such a sentiment. Over 50 years or so I have voted for almost all of the parties at one time or another but don't have a particular interest in politics. For a while I thought the idea of independence a good one but eventually decided that economically it makes no sense. In fact I feel that Scotland would fail badly without the 'Barnett Formula' distribution from central government which is currently enshrined in the (economic) law of the UK. For that reason I voted No to independence and accepted the result, it having come out on 'my side'. With regard to Brexit I voted to stay in and accept the result although in this case not the way I voted. That is democracy a concept perhaps lost on those clamouring for a rerun of the Independence vote despite 4 or 5 years not being a generation in many eyes.

The things about the Independence debate that bothers me is the arguments for staying part of Europe all go exactly for staying in the UK. Also as you stated re being British and Scottish, why do the SNP make you out as some form of traitor if you state such. Finally I can understand and debate with those wanting independence as long as they are courteous and willing to accept a view other than their own something sadly lacking a lot of the time. The single thing that annoys me most about the whole Independence debate is the hijacking of the Saltire/St Andrews flag by the nationalists especially the placing of yes on our national flag, the flag of all scots from both sides of the debate. By all means get a flag to show your thoughts but leave the saltire alone.

Also proud to be Scottish and British!!

[Deeranged]

You were in the forces?

What's your point?

[jdfc]

What's your point?

You served the Queen, who you swore allegiance too, you’ll get a pension from the British govt, be interesting if they refused to pay it after independence

[Returnofrros]

What's your point?

I don't understand why you could work for a fighting force surrounded by regalia and visual imagery of a flag you obviously dislike.

Akin to me working as Terry the terror and no liking dabs.