Neil Critchley...

[jamesdad]

I must agree with Mike SB that coaches are not helping the naturally gifted players but taking it out of them to play system style football. When was the last time we saw a player doing some thing like Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington , George Best and many more from that era who were exciting players and did unexpected things. Our young players play well as a unit but individually they lack the skills of past players but this is the modern game and if we want to sell they have to fit into the system or no club will buy them.

[Zeco]

When was the last time we saw a player doing some thing like Stan Bowles, Frank Worthington , George Best and many more from that era who were exciting players and did unexpected things.

Well you have Messi, and Ronaldo who certainly produce special moments, and you could potentially add quite a few others to that list such as Hazzard, Bale (not so much in the last 2 seasons). Going back further you have Gerrard in the 2005 champions league for Liverpool, Zola at Chelsea. The AC Milan side featuring Marco van Basten, Maradona at Napoli

Each decade has it's own special group of players, your just not afforded the same time as space now with the fashionable high pressing game that a lot more teams now use. Also the game has moved on with the advancements in the atheism of the players thanks to sports science and nutrition.

Now I wouldn't say our current crop lack any of the skill of the past players, in fact generally think they are a lot better in some ways in terms of their first touch, receiving the ball under pressure, passing etc on average. I just wouldn't put them in the same league as some of our past outstanding players such as Ashton, Murphy, Lennon, Hulse etc (I know there are probably better players that have graced Gresty road down the years, but I can only judge them against those who I have seen play).


In short coaching benefits all players, of all abilities, it is system/tactics that restrict what they do to a certain extent on the pitch.

[jimmyboldon]

Hi, mate, yes if HS2 comes here they will beg me to come back LOL..

If fans are born in an era when there are coaches and asst coaches and all the thousands of hangers on now at football clubs then they won't know how it was done before they all emerged. The key obviously is to try and get a team that has the skills to play what comes naturally and why the PL sign the best players because they have that talent. Nobody coached Best, Charlton and Greaves or at our level Frank Lord to head a ball. Players were signed as goalies, defenders and strikers and midfield because that is where they had played and were successful. But that was in an era before academies were even thought of and the reason and the ONLY reason players come through them is based simply on how good they are and coaches have very little impact on that ability. In fact they are arguably a hinderance as they want players to play by numbers and not allow them to express themselves. Yes, they can employ tactics to defend or attack etc etc but as I said Mourino can only win games when he has the best players and when he hasn't then he is no better than anybody else.

I bet that most fans who have played football or even watched football have some idea of how the games and/or tactics should be used. Millions of kids and adults play this fabulous game and have never had a coaching lesson in their lives. I will never be convinced we need an 'assistant' manager and there can only be one and why have Lunt in the tech area and DA in the flippin stand....Makes no sense when money is short....

There, he asked for it!

Keep well, we are a dying breed!

My first car had no power steering, drum brakes, pathetic fuel consumption, pathetic headlights, 3 speed gear box, a choke button, no windscreen wash, no radio, crossply tyres, no sat nav, etc etc. And it was absolutely fine. Why? Because most other cars were like that. Would I go back to such a car...no way.
So I suspect with my very limited tactical knowledge, that if we handnt appointed DA and instead reverted to the Bill Nicholson model, we would be unique at this level and severely disadvantaged. We would be nearer to the bottom of National League North rather than the top of League 2

[MikeSB]

My first car had no power steering, drum brakes, pathetic fuel consumption, pathetic headlights, 3 speed gear box, a choke button, no windscreen wash, no radio, crossply tyres, no sat nav, etc etc. And it was absolutely fine. Why? Because most other cars were like that. Would I go back to such a car...no way.
So I suspect with my very limited tactical knowledge, that if we handnt appointed DA and instead reverted to the Bill Nicholson model, we would be unique at this level and severely disadvantaged. We would be nearer to the bottom of National League North rather than the top of League 2

Well its all a matter of opinion isn't it. I agree that todays players are fitter only because they have fantastic facilities but doubt many and especially academy youngsters could play on the heavy pitches of yesteryear. You may have heard that we had players getting cramp after playing at Plymouth a couple of weeks ago and so fitter in some respects but stamina? I don't know. Just google Spurs vs Crewe in the FA cup replay of 1961 I think it was when we lost 13-2 LOL..

Lots of people still drive classic cars and its a strange thing but in all the cars I have had in the last 50 years, I have never had more than around 20 mpg around the town which is mostly what I have always done. And we know the mpg stats have been fiddled for years by the manufactures.

Its a moot point whether we would still have a professional league club at Crewe and it made me smile when I saw who is topping the National League at the mo and its Barrow! I bet most fans have never heard of that club but maybe I can give some advice if we get to play them in the league if we don't get promoted this season as the last time I was there was circa 1960 when we won 4-3 from memory but it was so foggy I never saw any of the goals and i never saw another Crewe fan there on the train or anywhere actually. I remember getting a train back and had to change at Preston and the next connection to Crewe was three hours later and I went to the pictures in Preston to while away the time...Such is the life of a Crewe fan hey....Yeh i know, what happened to Barrow over the next 60 years as think I was about 15 then and now 76 LOL....

I say again IF coaching was the answer, then most players would be of the same standard and we know that isn't true and so it HAS to be down to natural ability and why we have good and lean years at Crewe and so it all depends on what is coming through at any point in time.

Cheers and respect to all Crewe fans whatever their opinion!

[jimmyboldon]

[QUOTE=MikeSB;39449982]Well its all a matter of opinion isn't it. I agree that todays players are fitter only because they have fantastic facilities but doubt many and especially academy youngsters could play on the heavy pitches of yesteryear. You may have heard that we had players getting cramp after playing at Plymouth a couple of weeks ago and so fitter in some respects but stamina? I don't know. Just google Spurs vs Crewe in the FA cup replay of 1961 I think it was when we lost 13-2 LOL..

Lots of people still drive classic cars and its a strange thing but in all the cars I have had in the last 50 years, I have never had more than around 20 mpg around the town which is mostly what I have always done. And we know the mpg stats have been fiddled for years by the manufactures.

Its a moot point whether we would still have a professional league club at Crewe and it made me smile when I saw who is topping the National League at the mo and its Barrow! I bet most fans have never heard of that club but maybe I can give some advice if we get to play them in the league if we don't get promoted this season as the last time I was there was circa 1960 when we won 4-3 from memory but it was so foggy I never saw any of the goals and i never saw another Crewe fan there on the train or anywhere actually. I remember getting a train back and had to change at Preston and the next connection to Crewe was three hours later and I went to the pictures in Preston to while away the time...Such is the life of a Crewe fan hey....Yeh i know, what happened to Barrow over the next 60 years as think I was about 15 then and now 76 LOL....

I say again IF coaching was the answer, then most players would be of the same standard and we know that isn't true and so it HAS to be down to natural ability and why we have good and lean years at Crewe and so it all depends on what is coming through at any point in time.

Cheers and respect to all Crewe fans whatever their opinion![/QUOTE

Sorry Mike, I took your continual persistent criticism of footballers being coached related to tactics, systems etc. Not fitness, which is a very different argument. Silly me.

Why does the England cricket team, the best 15-20 players in the country, have bowling, batting, wicket keeper and fielding coaches, along with all other international teams? Because it works.

[MikeSB]

[QUOTE=jimmyboldon;39450015]

Well its all a matter of opinion isn't it. I agree that todays players are fitter only because they have fantastic facilities but doubt many and especially academy youngsters could play on the heavy pitches of yesteryear. You may have heard that we had players getting cramp after playing at Plymouth a couple of weeks ago and so fitter in some respects but stamina? I don't know. Just google Spurs vs Crewe in the FA cup replay of 1961 I think it was when we lost 13-2 LOL..

Lots of people still drive classic cars and its a strange thing but in all the cars I have had in the last 50 years, I have never had more than around 20 mpg around the town which is mostly what I have always done. And we know the mpg stats have been fiddled for years by the manufactures.

Its a moot point whether we would still have a professional league club at Crewe and it made me smile when I saw who is topping the National League at the mo and its Barrow! I bet most fans have never heard of that club but maybe I can give some advice if we get to play them in the league if we don't get promoted this season as the last time I was there was circa 1960 when we won 4-3 from memory but it was so foggy I never saw any of the goals and i never saw another Crewe fan there on the train or anywhere actually. I remember getting a train back and had to change at Preston and the next connection to Crewe was three hours later and I went to the pictures in Preston to while away the time...Such is the life of a Crewe fan hey....Yeh i know, what happened to Barrow over the next 60 years as think I was about 15 then and now 76 LOL....

I say again IF coaching was the answer, then most players would be of the same standard and we know that isn't true and so it HAS to be down to natural ability and why we have good and lean years at Crewe and so it all depends on what is coming through at any point in time.

Cheers and respect to all Crewe fans whatever their opinion![/QUOTE

Sorry Mike, I took your continual persistent criticism of footballers being coached related to tactics, systems etc. Not fitness, which is a very different argument. Silly me.

Why does the England cricket team, the best 15-20 players in the country, have bowling, batting, wicket keeper and fielding coaches, along with all other international teams? Because it works.

Hello JB, coaching is a huge topic with many aspects as exactly what it entails. I mean DA as an ex defender could hardly 'coach' eg Ainley in football 'skills' but he will tell him where to play in the team and it may not work. So possibly 'coaching' is a bad term when its tactics they are doing and as we know that wins matches of course. My 'continuing' criticism is that players have differing natural ability as they have always had from the year dot and what academies and training facilities do is to provide opportunity for players at whatever level to express that ability by playing competitive matches and the fitness regime comes into that. I don't think clubs like Crewe should be spending millions on what could be in 10 or more years time when many players in non league and indeed lower leagues can be seen in the present and then they too can see if they can gell alongside the others. Again coaching does not come into it. Dario was successful as he had a mix of talent from other clubs like Platt and Bowles and even Ashton was what 17 or 18 when he joined Crewe because he could not get into other local teams like Stoke and that was BEFORE the academy system came in but then some bright spark decided that we should 'coach' 6 year olds and 10 year olds without knowing how they will develop mentally and physically for a game that actually is nowhere near as tough and brutal as in the old days when Goalies suffered broken arms and shoulders and don't start me on the current thing about heading the ball vs dementia....On the other hand! LOL..

No, my friend, natural abiity has to be allowed to shine through and unfortunately as said here, managers and coaches are there to win games and not get involved with these natural skills. Its a travesty that Ainley has a job to get a game as arguably one of our best players. And we give loan players the nod? That is surely against what the academy stands for?

It was great to have seen the greats of yesteryear play this game as I did both at Crewe and sometimes going to ManU to watch Best and Charlton play and Greaves when he played at Burnley and Wolves back then so I have been about a lickle bit you know...Hehe!

Cricketers and Golfers are just like anyone else that HAS to have the natural abiity to do what comes naturally and why they make the grade. I could never be a scratch golfer no matter how many lessons I would have and know some golfers who spent long hours being erm coached who never ever made it to the Pro ranks...You should have seen Danny Blanchflower marshall the team as a Midfielder back then. You didn't need any assistant manager as the Team Captain was the man who was in the best position to know what was expected of his team and could go and have a quiet word in their shell like...Nowadays you rarely see a Captain take charge like that..


Cheers!

[jimmyboldon]

Perhaps if you attended more often you would realise why Ainley struggles to get a game.
It's an excellent 15 cameo at the end of a home game against a tiring team chasing an equaliser or sitting back protecting a point. Followed by same the following week, followed by a place in the starting lineup. It's then a good 10-15 mins at the start of the game, followed by a rapid decline into annonimity until he's subbed at 70 mins.
Rinse and repeat several times throughout the season.
He can also be very one dimensional in trying to beat a man with the rolling of his foot on top of the ball. Works first time, quickly Sussed.

[ShropshireAlex]

[QUOTE=MikeSB;39450029]

....... even Ashton was what 17 or 18 when he joined Crewe because he could not get into other local teams like Stoke and that was BEFORE the academy system came in but then some bright spark decided that we should 'coach' 6 year olds and 10 year olds without knowing how they will develop mentally and physically for a game that actually is nowhere near as tough and brutal as in the old days when Goalies suffered broken arms and shoulders and don't start me on the current thing about heading the ball vs dementia....On the other hand! LOL..

No, my friend, natural abiity has to be allowed to shine through and unfortunately as said here, managers and coaches are there to win games and not get involved with these natural skills. Its a travesty that Ainley has a job to get a game as arguably one of our best players. And we give loan players the nod? That is surely against what the academy stands for?

It was great to have seen the greats of yesteryear play this game as I did both at Crewe and sometimes going to ManU to watch Best and Charlton play and Greaves when he played at Burnley and Wolves back then so I have been about a lickle bit you know...Hehe!

Cricketers and Golfers are just like anyone else that HAS to have the natural abiity to do what comes naturally and why they make the grade. I could never be a scratch golfer no matter how many lessons I would have and know some golfers who spent long hours being erm coached who never ever made it to the Pro ranks...You should have seen Danny Blanchflower marshall the team as a Midfielder back then. You didn't need any assistant manager as the Team Captain was the man who was in the best position to know what was expected of his team and could go and have a quiet word in their shell like...Nowadays you rarely see a Captain take charge like that..


Cheers!

Dean signed scholarship forms from school at 16 when he didn't get a place at Stoke, and was still 16 when he made his debut in October 2000!