O/T:- Impressed with the leadership

[i961pie]

You have made your position pretty clear, the government are basically blameless and it's their advisors who are at fault.

It must be nice to have a position of power, but very little accountability!

You are an expert at twisting things I am not claiming anything,just putting forward another point of view.
I unlike many don't have a political axe to grind.
Hindsight is wonderful I am sure the government and their advisors would do things differently now.
They sent a lot of our protective gear to China at the start of this virus (if China told the truth it was the start) to try and contain it.
They allowed Cheltenham to go ahead, they also allowed 2,000 Spanish football supporters to join 50,000 Liverpool supporters to play a football match. Both were wrong and shouldn't have been allowed to happen, but many fans of both were pleased at the time.(including me).
They will take the blame and there will be accountability and a day of reckoning if they are guilty.

[drillerpie]

No

Already made your mind up?

[i961pie]

Already made your mind up?

No, I don't read much press because most of the time it is only their opinion or political persuassion, and I will wait to see the scientific evidence at the end of this.
If the government have made terrible mistakes they will face the consequences and deservedly so.
I haven't made my mind up about anything.

[drillerpie]

No, I don't read much press because most of the time it is only their opinion or political persuassion, and I will wait to see the scientific evidence at the end of this.
If the government have made terrible mistakes they will face the consequences and deservedly so.
I haven't made my mind up about anything.

From your other posts it seems like you've made your mind up about quite a lot. US bad, Germany good, NZ good, UK middling and any UK mistakes are down to bad advice and not the government, and no other UK government would have acted differently.

I'd respectfully point out that only by comparing our response with other countries will we be able to improve. That is not really possible by analysing numbers or scientific data.

The Times is a respectable, quality newspaper and if anything is pro Conservative. Neither the government nor the advisers come out of it particularly well, but personally I'm glad I read it as I feel like it added to my understanding of the situation.

[seriouspie]

I think soccerman has got into your head about Jeremy Corbyn, I never mentioned the guy.
Of course the government will take the blame for its shortcomings or failures and if they are proved to be incompetent they will pay the price.
But at the moment it is the same people on here that hate the tories that are shouting the loudest, it is so predictable.
And before you accuse me of being Soccerman or seriouspie in disguise I didn't vote for Boris.

Eyup i961pie ...... Don't get into conversation with these repetitive losers son. Let them whinge moan and snipe, it won't make any difference. Like the BBC they have to find something to criticise .... that's all they can do because they are ineffectual and they know it. The fact is - Boris and his lads are here for the long haul and the majority of ordinary Brits (the ones that count) want it that way. I criticise Lefties because generally I find them weak and unable to make decisions on their own. Likewise Lefties criticise me for my R/W so called bigoted views .... OK by me, we are all entitled to our views and so it should be, but at the end of the day when all the dust has settled on this horrendous virus saga, I have a feeling the Tories will come out on top in the opinion polls. My other well know prediction ..... the US election. Horrible as the man is, Trump will wipe the floor with Biden and the Dems. Both he and Boris have been pilloried left right and centre by the snivelling Lefties and in both cases, before they won. It made no difference and it won't again.

Any further research been done on the great Whittaker by the way? From what I can find out, he scored 2 goals for us in 10 games before boggering off back to Canada to run their national side??

[Elite_Pie]

I unlike many don't have a political axe to grind.

You've told us before that you are politically unbiased.

It just seems a bit odd to me that you are always unbiased in favour of the right!

[i961pie]

From your other posts it seems like you've made your mind up about quite a lot. US bad, Germany good, NZ good, UK middling and any UK mistakes are down to bad advice and not the government, and no other UK government would have acted differently.

I'd respectfully point out that only by comparing our response with other countries will we be able to improve. That is not really possible by analysing numbers or scientific data.

The Times is a respectable, quality newspaper and if anything is pro Conservative. Neither the government nor the advisers come out of it particularly well, but personally I'm glad I read it as I feel like it added to my understanding of the situation.

Now you are making things up, where have I said no UK government would have acted differently? Doesn't Murdoch own the times?
And I am comparing ourselves with other governments that is why it seems NZ and Germany are doing better than us and the USA, Italy and Spain aren't.
A lot of things you read or hear quite often are opinions, one person says one thing and another 'expert' contradicts it.
All I am saying is I will wait to see what the scientific evidence is at the end of all this,if the government have been negligent then that will be the end of them. Everything isn't always just black or white.
But don't twist my words to suit there are others on here who are experts at that.

[magpie_mania]

Eyup i961pie ...... Don't get into conversation with these repetitive losers son. Let them whinge moan and snipe, it won't make any difference. Like the BBC they have to find something to criticise .... that's all they can do because they are ineffectual and they know it. The fact is - Boris and his lads are here for the long haul and the majority of ordinary Brits (the ones that count) want it that way. I criticise Lefties because generally I find them weak and unable to make decisions on their own. Likewise Lefties criticise me for my R/W so called bigoted views .... OK by me, we are all entitled to our views and so it should be, but at the end of the day when all the dust has settled on this horrendous virus saga, I have a feeling the Tories will come out on top in the opinion polls. My other well know prediction ..... the US election. Horrible as the man is, Trump will wipe the floor with Biden and the Dems. Both he and Boris have been pilloried left right and centre by the snivelling Lefties and in both cases, before they won. It made no difference and it won't again.

Any further research been done on the great Whittaker by the way? From what I can find out, he scored 2 goals for us in 10 games before boggering off back to Canada to run their national side??

'The fact is - Boris and his lads are here for the long haul and the majority of ordinary Brits (the ones that count) want it that way.'

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Next time there won't be a Brexit to vote for. (Presuming it's sorted by then!).

[i961pie]

You've told us before that you are politically unbiased.

It just seems a bit odd to me that you are always unbiased in favour of the right!

I try to play devils advocate because quite a few on here are so anti everything or anything the Tory government does whether it is good or bad, and believe it or not (and I know you won't) I was the same when Blair was in power and he was unfairly criticised a lot of the time.

[drillerpie]

You said that:

This is unprecedented and Boris and his cronies are not experts in this, so rely on their advisors who are supposed to be medical experts.
That is what any government would do in this situation so maybe the advice wasn't always correct.

I took 'that's what any government would do' to mean no government would've done any different.

Yes Murdoch owns the Times, so it's hardly politically motivated to bring Boris down.

I agree with you that not eveything is black and white. I also agree that science and data tell part of the story, but not all of it. I don't know why you wouldn't want to read the Times article about who said what to whom and when and then read the government's rebuttals, and make your own mind up.