Johnson in Hospital

[Trickytreesreds]

I think Andy that considering the MP for AV is a Tory, Nigel Mills.
They must be aware that winning back voters with clowns like her, does not help the cause.
Tactless/un professional/ and comes across like a bitter 5 year old.

[ramAnag]

Changing tack just a little, not to take pressure away from this offensive woman...she deserves all the criticism coming her way...but to introduce a slightly different perspective.

I’ll say from the outset I claim absolutely no expertise and I’m not making the point to minimise the need for social/physical distancing at all...we have to do it, but...I understand that the normal - i.e. before Coronavirus - daily UK death toll is in the region of 1500.

No one has ever made clear - and it’s perhaps an impossible thing to do - how many of the daily Coronavirus death toll would be expected to be amongst the ‘normal’ daily death toll both here and, in equivalent terms, across the whole World.

As I say...this is in no way an attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation but it is a question that others may be able to answer, and at a time when sections of the media do seem to be inducing panic such a perspective might provide a little in the way of optimism and make the daily mortality figures slightly less terrifying.

[Ram59]

Harsh, GP...and a little unfair. I’m not the only one on here who queried the authenticity of his, Hancock and Cummings’ illnesses. Seem to remember you starting the conspiracy theories over Prince Charles.

To be completely truthful I care a great deal more about many other people. Obviously first amongst those are my friends and loved ones but I’d go so far as to include a number on here who I know to be decent people who also have underlying health issues to deal with.

I’ve never understood the political way of calling opponents every name under the sun until they suffer some misfortune at which point they suddenly become paragons of virtue.

At a human level I wish him a full recovery, but to be brutally honest I’m much more moved by those on the ‘frontline’ who have lost their lives, possibly as a result of inadequate government response. If that sounds harsh, so be it...at least it’s honest.

It's interesting to understand what we class who those on the front line are.

Obviously, those working in the NHS, but what about bus drivers, checkout assistants and such like? NHS staff are by and large equipped with PPE and know what they're dealing with. Checkout staff deal with hundreds of people every shift, some of which must have the virus, without any PPE, some now have screens. By the nature of a supermarket checkout, they can't keep a 2m gap. The same goes for bus drivers.

Every death is horrendous and we seem to know about every NHS fatality. But considering the NHS is the largest employer in the country, are their figures, proportionally any higher than those of the bus drivers or checkout staff?

[Ram59]

Changing tack just a little, not to take pressure away from this offensive woman...she deserves all the criticism coming her way...but to introduce a slightly different perspective.

I’ll say from the outset I claim absolutely no expertise and I’m not making the point to minimise the need for social/physical distancing at all...we have to do it, but...I understand that the normal - i.e. before Coronavirus - daily UK death toll is in the region of 1500.

No one has ever made clear - and it’s perhaps an impossible thing to do - how many of the daily Coronavirus death toll would be expected to be amongst the ‘normal’ daily death toll both here and, in equivalent terms, across the whole World.

As I say...this is in no way an attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation but it is a question that others may be able to answer, and at a time when sections of the media do seem to be inducing panic such a perspective might provide a little in the way of optimism and make the daily mortality figures slightly less terrifying.

I totally agree RA, the media always say that the 'true' figures must be higher, because we're only counting the hospital deaths, but as you say, a number of these fatalities would have happened anyway, especially as a majority are over 80 and with underlying health issues. But, they love to make a drama out of a crisis, do the media.

[Trickytreesreds]

Changing tack just a little, not to take pressure away from this offensive woman...she deserves all the criticism coming her way...but to introduce a slightly different perspective.

I’ll say from the outset I claim absolutely no expertise and I’m not making the point to minimise the need for social/physical distancing at all...we have to do it, but...I understand that the normal - i.e. before Coronavirus - daily UK death toll is in the region of 1500.

No one has ever made clear - and it’s perhaps an impossible thing to do - how many of the daily Coronavirus death toll would be expected to be amongst the ‘normal’ daily death toll both here and, in equivalent terms, across the whole World.

As I say...this is in no way an attempt to minimise the seriousness of the situation but it is a question that others may be able to answer, and at a time when sections of the media do seem to be inducing panic such a perspective might provide a little in the way of optimism and make the daily mortality figures slightly less terrifying.

No but to be fair to Swale, it is what he was trying to say earlier.
How many of those deaths would have happened anyway, with the slightest illness?
Most victims are old and with underlying health problems.

It is also the case with the mortality rate.
They tell you how many deaths against how many tested and come up with a 3.2% death rate.
Not true. They are only testing the really serious cases, that come to their attention.
There will be way many more unreported cases, as their symptoms will be no worse than a heavy cold.

Not trying to detract from those dying of course. But in no way should you expect to die when catching this.
But to protect the vulnerable, isolation makes a lot of sense. Unless you're a footballer of course. Then you're exempt.

[ramAnag]

It's interesting to understand what we class who those on the front line are.

Obviously, those working in the NHS, but what about bus drivers, checkout assistants and such like? NHS staff are by and large equipped with PPE and know what they're dealing with. Checkout staff deal with hundreds of people every shift, some of which must have the virus, without any PPE, some now have screens. By the nature of a supermarket checkout, they can't keep a 2m gap. The same goes for bus drivers.

Every death is horrendous and we seem to know about every NHS fatality. But considering the NHS is the largest employer in the country, are their figures, proportionally any higher than those of the bus drivers or checkout staff?

Personally, Ram, I have, throughout this crisis, always considered those in the ‘frontline’ to be those who deal face to face with the public or who have to clear up after them.

For me NHS workers who knowingly put themselves in the immediate proximity of individuals known to have Coronavirus are at the top of the list but they are, as you say, hopefully better protected. Others I would include are shop/checkout staff, public transport employees, care workers, teachers, police officers, cleaners, refuse collectors and, slightly oddly, those in the media who are often reporting from some fairly risky environments.

[Geoff Parkstone]

As a point of interest, why are teachers front line, aside from obvious bias!! As I understand it, schools are by and large closed and, even if they were open, would have been on Easter break.

I accept that some facilities are not closed, mostly relating to vulnerable children, and arguably there must be a few foreign students locked down in private boarding schools. But surely the majority of teachers are now locked down in the same way most clerical staff etc are, perhaps working, perhaps not, but in isolation rather than front line.

Not meant as a slight, and maybe I've got it wrong, but....

[Trickytreesreds]

As a point of interest, why are teachers front line, aside from obvious bias!! As I understand it, schools are by and large closed and, even if they were open, would have been on Easter break.

I accept that some facilities are not closed, mostly relating to vulnerable children, and arguably there must be a few foreign students locked down in private boarding schools. But surely the majority of teachers are now locked down in the same way most clerical staff etc are, perhaps working, perhaps not, but in isolation rather than front line.

Not meant as a slight, and maybe I've got it wrong, but....

interesting question, as after I said kids, were one of the worst conductors of disease and RA said I was wrong?
The government saw fit to shut the schools down?
So are teachers in the front line or not?

[swaledale]

I would agree with you RA, unfortunately you're talking to the wrong man.
My voice has little carry. Labour has been accused many times of cheap point scoring in the current situation.
I was very pleased to hear Starmer say, he wanted to work with the government, whilst we deal with this.
Many in his party don't feel that way. Same with the SNP. Nothing to do with the emergency, just trying to further their status by being snidey from the side lines.

It's a good job politicians weren't so much of a Judas in 1939

There are always those in any organisation who think of themselves and their own agenda in any situation, word has it there is much infighting among the government, all down to petty jealousy and furthering their own career, plus a major job trying to blame others for the governments lack of preparation for this event.

It was ever the case and it always will be, I know decent people of all political persuasions, I also know some right gits who I wouldn't deal with or vote for even if they represented a political party I support.
a

[swaledale]

interesting question, as after I said kids, were one of the worst conductors of disease and RA said I was wrong?
The government saw fit to shut the schools down?
So are teachers in the front line or not?

Research has been published which points to children not being conductors of the disease and that closing schools was not a great help in preventing the spread of the virus.