Johnson in Hospital

[Geoff Parkstone]

I'd heard that too - the greater risk was actually the "mom's in the school yard" socialising than the kids themselves.

However, like statistics, research can demonstrate any conclusion you ask it to, and this is an unknown virus that children could react differently to.

[Trickytreesreds]

I'd heard that too - the greater risk was actually the "mom's in the school yard" socialising than the kids themselves.

However, like statistics, research can demonstrate any conclusion you ask it to, and this is an unknown virus that children could react differently to.

I was watching a video earlier on a migrant camp in Greece.
A woman in Labour, was taken to the hospital and there tested positive for corona.
They went back to the camp and found over 20 tested positive, with out showing symptoms whatsoever?

Forget the fact this was a migrant camp, I am tying this in with the school kids. How many are real carriers, and being kids come into contact with dozens and dozens of others?
If this is a yard stick, that carriers do not have to be obviously ill, then we really are in trouble.


watch it yourself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Wl-v3XCtQ4

[ramAnag]

As a point of interest, why are teachers front line, aside from obvious bias!! As I understand it, schools are by and large closed and, even if they were open, would have been on Easter break.

I accept that some facilities are not closed, mostly relating to vulnerable children, and arguably there must be a few foreign students locked down in private boarding schools. But surely the majority of teachers are now locked down in the same way most clerical staff etc are, perhaps working, perhaps not, but in isolation rather than front line.

Not meant as a slight, and maybe I've got it wrong, but....

No ‘bias’ at all, GP...absolute objectivity.

1. Schools are, by their very nature, places where illness can spread easily and rapidly...usually just mild coughs and sneezes...but all the conditions are in place for sickness/virus to spread.

2. Most schools closed or partially closed two weeks ago and children are allegedly amongst the ‘super spreaders’ who may not even know they have the virus. The infection typically takes 14 days to manifest itself. You ‘do the maths’.

3. Some schools, including the one I last worked in, have remained open because of the number of ‘vulnerable’ pupils. Such ‘vulnerable’ pupils are usually described as such because of the ineffectuality, or worse, of their parents. Such households are, rarely in my experience, the most health and hygiene conscious.

4. Many teachers have set up ‘online’ teaching facilities and, although still busy, are no longer in the ‘frontline’, but others are still providing an on site ‘skeleton’ service and indeed are doing this through the Easter holidays for the (again) ‘vulnerable’ and the children of ‘key workers’.

5. Teachers do not just encounter children in their work. Their jobs do involve meeting and talking to parents including those ‘school yard mums’ who you drew attention to elsewhere as potential sources of infection.

6. Very difficult these days to be an effective teacher from two metres away, although I suspect you and I can both recall stern gown bedecked ‘masters’ who seldom moved from their desks...in my case usually only to clip me round the ear!

Times have changed...hope that’s cleared that up.

P.S. Tricky...where have I doubted that children spread the disease? Don’t remember doing so. I wouldn’t claim to know...what I do know is that many common illnesses are much worse in adults than children but I doubt I would ever have suggested that children don’t spread Covid-19 even though they may not experience the symptoms.

[Geoff Parkstone]

But my point is, as we appear to agree, that, as of now, most teachers are not front line, although they obviously were before the school system, by and large, closed down.

[ramAnag]

But my point is, as we appear to agree, that, as of now, most teachers are not front line, although they obviously were before the school system, by and large, closed down.

...and mine is...stop playing the nit-picking pedant.

Clearly those who are currently on holiday or those who’s schools have closed are, as I have already acknowledged, currently not ‘frontline’.

However, until about 20th March, they most certainly were, and those who continue to provide the ‘emergency’ holiday staffing and/or continue to provide for the offspring of ‘key workers’ or the needs of the more ‘vulnerable’ still are.

Didn’t realise things had to be so quantifiable for you...maybe I should have specified...shop workers serving people with a cough...NHS workers dealing exclusively with Covid-19 patients...transport workers, but at a much reduced rate now because there’s been a reduction in usage!

The point is that people who deal face to face with the public are ‘frontline’.

There are many who are desperate for the schools to go back as soon as the school holidays are over, not least because it helps enormously in allowing the nation to return to work.
Personally I doubt they’ll be open before September, but accept I’m insufficiently expertly in the area of virology to know whether that makes sense or not.
It would however seem strange, to me at least, to allow the schools to return when just about every single school activity would seem to be unavoidably in direct and major contravention of the social/physical distancing rules.

[Geoff Parkstone]

Indeed, my youngest has returned from Uni in Norwich and has been told not to come back before September. I think this is now the case for all universities, although there are some overseas students still locked down in halls which can't be fun.

Havent all end of year exams for senior schools been cancelled too with A levels and university places for next year being down to teacher assessments based on continuous assessment up to Easter?

I guess primary schools might be able to reopen, but don't see it happening.

Online woodwork teaching is of course tricky.

[ramAnag]

g5

Havent all end of year exams for senior schools been cancelled too with A levels and university places for next year being down to teacher assessments based on continuous assessment up to Easter?

I guess primary schools might be able to reopen, but don't see it happening.

The continual assessment system was working fine until Gove decided to tinker in an attempt to return everything to circa 1965, so I don’t see that being a huge problem. Disappointing for some, I imagine. Delight for others.

Not sure why you’d think primary schools ‘might reopen’. I guess their closure has a bigger impact on the economy, but younger children are often snottier and less capable where independent hygiene skills are concerned, so ‘gatherings’ in the high twenties and thirties, all in confined spaces, are unlikely, imo, to be recommended unless there is a swift and dramatic improvement in the situation.

[MadAmster]

IMO, it's all going to be shut for a while yet. Dutch government announced yesterday 5 things that have to happen before they can even think of loosening the rules a little.

1.The R factor (number of people infected by someone with CV-19) has to be below 1 for "quite a while"
2. The health system has enough capacity to go back to "work as normal" alongside CV-19 cases
3. Sufficient test capacity
4. Enough capacity to track/trace sources of contamination and contacting contacts
5. Means of measuring the transition back to normality in order to be able to react quickly to changing stats.

That suggests the NL won't be back to normal any day soon and I dout the UK will be either.

Another thing Premier Rutte said was very thought provoking. Don't think that a return to "normal" will see things as they were. Translated to UK measures, he said the 2m (social distancing - it's 1.5m here...) society is here to stay.

What he didn't say was what that would mean for places of work from factories to offices to bars, clubs, festivals, sports events. Basically, 2m everywhere. That will drastically reduce the number of people at a concert, sports event, in a bar, in a restaurant etc.......... Let that sink in.

One bar in the Hague is ahead of the game. The day after the shutdown, however long ago that was, he got the builders in and is refurbing the bar to keep people socially distanced, permanently. Once things open up the rest will have to follow, if you read what Rutte said......

Might this be the future in the UK as well? Don't be surprised if it is.

Pride Park's capacity may well halve........

[Geoff Parkstone]

Won't make much difference down the road at the council ground

[ramAnag]

IMO, it's all going to be shut for a while yet. Dutch government announced yesterday 5 things that have to happen before they can even think of loosening the rules a little.

1.The R factor (number of people infected by someone with CV-19) has to be below 1 for "quite a while"
2. The health system has enough capacity to go back to "work as normal" alongside CV-19 cases
3. Sufficient test capacity
4. Enough capacity to track/trace sources of contamination and contacting contacts
5. Means of measuring the transition back to normality in order to be able to react quickly to changing stats.

That suggests the NL won't be back to normal any day soon and I dout the UK will be either.

Another thing Premier Rutte said was very thought provoking. Don't think that a return to "normal" will see things as they were. Translated to UK measures, he said the 2m (social distancing - it's 1.5m here...) society is here to stay.

What he didn't say was what that would mean for places of work from factories to offices to bars, clubs, festivals, sports events. Basically, 2m everywhere. That will drastically reduce the number of people at a concert, sports event, in a bar, in a restaurant etc.......... Let that sink in.

One bar in the Hague is ahead of the game. The day after the shutdown, however long ago that was, he got the builders in and is refurbing the bar to keep people socially distanced, permanently. Once things open up the rest will have to follow, if you read what Rutte said......

Might this be the future in the UK as well? Don't be surprised if it is.

Pride Park's capacity may well halve........

Well thanks, MA...that’s cheered me up no end.

Seriously though...no reason to suspect you or Premier Rutte are exaggerating and to add two more to your list...what will long term adherence to the 1.5 - 2 metre rules mean to schools and to air travel?

Basically classrooms would need to be at least twice as big...or there will need to be twice as many, and air travel is likely to become prohibitively expensive because planes will only be able to carry about a third of current capacity.

Better find that vaccine...or master time travel!