O/T:- ...Has the key to a coronavirus vaccine been staring us in the face?

[tarquinbeech]

I read it here but its not actual stats its news https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...8f8_story.html

Thanks for that:
A handful of states report coronavirus cases and death by race and ethnicity. In Illinois, black people are 14 percent of the population but account for 30 percent of the confirmed cases and 41 percent of the deaths. In North Carolina, where African Americans represent 22 percent of the population, they make up 37 percent of cases and 22 percent of deaths. Data from Louisiana, where black people make up 33 percent of the population, shows they are represent than 70 percent of covid-19 deaths.

Health-care and government officials in Michigan and Wisconsin also have acknowledged that African Americans have died at disproportionate rates from the disease. In Albany, Ga., which has the highest number of deaths from covid-19 in the state, more than 90 percent of the fatalities are African Americans.

[jackal2]

The figures are horrible. However if you drill down into them by socio economic group it is the lower socio economic groups who are much harder hit in particular black people. This is something of a sweeping statement but I would expect lower socio economic groups to live in less sanatised conditions as they have less money to clean etc. This makes something of a mockery of Jackals statement above ( no offense Jackal). I am not sure what the stats are on older folks being less likely to have the TB jab perhaps there is a correlation there as well.

No offence taken, queensland.

I was citing a particular study on eczema that appeared to back up Elite's theory that people who are brought up or work in relatively harsh conditions develop a certain resilience level that those in more benign conditions might not, but the answer won't be binary. As far as COVID-19 is concerned we pretty much know nobody is immune, even though some are asymptomatic, and if you live in lower socio-economic areas which can often be densely populated and possibly less sanitary, the risk of cross infection surely increases.

At an individual level our immune systems can be contradictory and difficult to fathom. For instance I'm allergic to animal fur and yet I barely get any reaction to mosquito bites, whereas my mother gets an extreme reaction to mozzies but has no reaction cats and dogs.

[tarquinbeech]

What about those of us who have actually had TB are we more at risk or dosn't it matter

My guess is that it would depend totally on the amount of lung damage incurred during the original TB attack (a vaccine causes no lung damage to my knowledge, merely provokes a response from the body's original immune system and that "memory" stops around for 15 to 20 years, or longer if given a booster jab.......even when totally faded, many believe that the body retains a faint "imprint" within it's innate or adaptive immune system)

With a full-blown attack of TB or pneumonia, it can leave scarring of the lung wall, permanent cavities or widening of the airways called bronchiectasis. Patients will always be short of breath and susceptible to respiratory diseases....so even if those with TB jabs are somehow less likely to catch Covid19, or more able to deal with it (there are now many reports of people actually getting Covid almost without knowing it, shrugging it off and acting as normal) the damage caused in the original attack could outweigh the benefits of any boosted auto-immunity.

Here is a report in the Lancet:
a study of more than 2,000 Indian patients with evidence of permanent lung damage.

Researchers have found that more than one-third of patients who are successfully cured of TB with antibiotics developed permanent lung damage which, in the worst cases, results in large holes in the lungs called cavities and widening of the airways called bronchiectasis.

TB survivors and patients with a history of severe infections such as childhood pneumonia made up the majority of patients with lung damage in India.

The research, funded by the British Lung Foundation and the European Respiratory Society, suggested that these infections left a legacy of daily cough, further chest infections and poor quality of life.

https://www.livemint.com/science/hea...491565189.html

[BanjoPie]

TB is an infection caused by bacteria - Covid-19 is a virus, they are not the same. Below is an interesting read I found by someone who knows the difference;

Jane Raison; Views expressed are my own.

As someone with a Masters in disease control, you can only imagine the sheer hell on earth that Facebook is for me at the moment.

From Chantelle who has impressively made the leap from bath bomb retailer to consultant virologist in a matter of weeks and can tell you exactly why the government and their experts are wrong, to Bob who claims to have secret intel from a secret government group on the secret programme of secret treatment measures that the government are definitely bringing in at 3pm next Thursday, only it’s a secret, but he’s posting it on Facebook so he feels like 007, to Steve who thinks it’s all a load of *******s and if he wants to wander round town he bloody well can cos he doesn’t feel sick and why the hell is ‘spoons shut cos his granddad didn’t fight the nazis for him to be told to stay inside even if ****hub premium is now free for a week.

I tried as hard as I could in my studies and in my work in disease control to avoid viruses like the plague (see what I did there?) because they are absolute *******s. Bacteria are so much easier to control and parasites are positively dreamy. Viruses are utter *******s (did I mention that?) because you can do almost naff all to them. To deal with viruses you have to deal with the viral vector instead. That’s the weak point for a virus. Its vector. Only in this case the vector is humans, bloody stupid, arsehole humans like Chantelle, Bob and Steve. Viral control is about psychology more than it’s about medicine and that’s what’s scary about it. Giving everyone a pill is easy, getting everyone to listen and change their behaviour is a bloody nightmare.

The virus is just chugging along being a virus, it’s living it’s best life #livelaughcough. You can’t ignore it out of existence, scaremonger it away or become magically immune by gargling with vinegar, donning a decorating mask or sticking a live frog up your arse and swanning round town like an immortal dickhead. You have to actually do what you’re being told to do. YOU.

YOU. You can stop it. Do what you’re told. Stay the heck inside. Stop thinking you’re an expert, stop thinking you know best, stop thinking you’re a rebel, stop trying to be a special little cupcake. Be a sheeple. Do what you’ve been asked to do. This is NOT your time to shine sweet cheeks, this isn’t your opportunity to over throw the system and save mankind. It’s your opportunity to sit tight, watch Netflix and save mankind.

The virus does not give a **** about you. You’re just a stepping stone, a host, a nameless, faceless breeding ground and launchpad. All it gives a **** about is reproducing and finding new hosts. Don’t let it. Break the chain. Shut the hell up. Stop spreading fake news, fear and gossip. Let the experts be the experts and do what they tell you because all the googling, all the conspiracy theories, all the spoilt princess routines and all the voodoo bull**** in the world is not going to help you one little bit. This is not about YOUR ego, it’s about OUR survival. So act for the good of us all and do what you’re being asked to do.

Stay inside, protect the NHS, save lives.

I’m almost as much fun on Twitter @clerkingabout www.twitter.com/clerkingabout

Addendum:
Hello everyone, thank you for taking the time to read my ramble and to share it and help me convince my parents that all that money spent on my education was of some benefit to mankind but I’m just a girl who has a little experience I wanted to share.

I’ve not even told you about the time I got the lab induced yeast infection up my nose, the time I sedated myself with chloroform during an exam, or had an entire, fully operational water treatment plant stolen over night, but, suffice to say I have a little window into this mad world we’re all stuck in together now.
I am not your government. I am not your health department. I am not the girl who decides on your country’s global treatment programme. I’m not Scully, or indeed, Mulder.

So please don’t come at me bro, I’m not interested in arguing with you because you’ve read how eating 4 oranges a day will give you a shield of protection like you’ve just had a bowl of 1970s readybrek, or how you have a file of secret evidence as to why this has been made up by the Chinese/Trump/ phone companies or your dad. I’m just here to say STAY THE **** INSIDE.

Now, Judge Judy is on and I’ve just treated myself to a Freddo Frog, so have fun y’all and STAY INSIDE.
🍫🐸

[tarquinbeech]

No offence taken, queensland.

I was citing a particular study on eczema that appeared to back up Elite's theory that

people who are brought up or work in relatively harsh conditions develop a certain resilience level that those in more benign conditions might not,

but the answer won't be binary. As far as COVID-19 is concerned we pretty much know nobody is immune, even though some are asymptomatic, and if you live in lower socio-economic areas which can often be densely populated and possibly less sanitary, the risk of cross infection surely increases.

At an individual level our immune systems can be contradictory and difficult to fathom. For instance I'm allergic to animal fur and yet I barely get any reaction to mosquito bites, whereas my mother gets an extreme reaction to mozzies but has no reaction cats and dogs.

That, pretty much is what I'm trying to explain.....humans are an animal (though very clever and adaptive) and were created by evolution to exist in the rough-n-tumble world at large.....from the minute we are born, our immune system kicks into gear to keep us alive and the more it is exposed to, the better.....HOWEVER child mortality rates even 150 years ago were horrific, that's why the Victorians had large families.....we are all carrying around hundreds of "natural" diseases like TB, but we have adapted our environment to ensure that "consumption" (the body consumes itself leading to rapid weight loss) coupled with a simple BCG, means that in the West, TB had almost been eradicated.
It got to the point that different countries decided it was no longer cost-effective to immunise whole generations of school-kids (shots ranged from $1.15 for the UK buying 1 million per year to over $100 in the USA where it was specifically ordered for a single patient as they never had a policy of 100% immunisation)
Letting a child play in the garden and "scrumping" apples off a tree and eating it without spraying it with Dettol, is totally different from letting a kid run barefoot in open sewerage in a Mumbai slum (though if he survives that he may become a medical marvel)

[jackal2]

Letting a child play in the garden and "scrumping" apples off a tree and eating it without spraying it with Dettol, is totally different from letting a kid run barefoot in open sewerage in a Mumbai slum (though if he survives that he may become a medical marvel)

Very true!

[tarquinbeech]

TB is an infection caused by bacteria - Covid-19 is a virus, they are not the same. Below is an interesting read I found by someone who knows the difference;

Correct, nobody has said they were the same....here is merely one definition:
Bacteria and viruses are both microscopic microbes. Both of them can cause diseases in plants and animals. Both these types of microbes contain enzymes required for the DNA replication and protein synthesis. But, viruses require a host organism for the production of viral coat proteins. Therefore, they should invade a second organism for their replication. On the other hand, bacteria can reproduce independently by binary fission. Both microbes consist of a huge diversity compared to other life forms. The key difference between bacteria and virus is the consideration of each form as a living or non-*living organism

Both bacteria and viruses can attack or invade the human body, and we have an immune system specifically designed to fight back.
We were discussing (as are various governments around the World) whether the deliberate "triggering" of our immune system FROM ONE UNRELATED DRUG OR VACCINE, might have benefits in fighting another....let me give you one specific example.

Here is a copy-n-paste of general blurb on cancers:
Strictly speaking, cancer is not contagious. But a fair number of cancers are clearly caused by viral or bacterial infections: lymphomas can be triggered by the Epstein-Barr virus, which also causes mononucleosis. Liver cancers can be caused by Hepatitis B and C. Cervical cancers can be caused by human papillomavirus, the major reason behind the development of a vaccine against it. For some of these cancers, nearly 100% of the cases have an infectious link---when researchers check to see if a virus or bacterium is working in the tumor or has left signs of its presence in a patient's blood, the answer is nearly always yes.
A new paper in The Lancet takes a look at the very best data on the prevalence of infection-caused cancers and comes up with some striking numbers. Overall, they estimate that 16% of cancer cases worldwide in 2008 had an infectious cause---2 million out of 12.7 million.
Hepatitis B and C, HPV, and Helicobacter pylori, a bacterium that triggers stomach cancer, caused the lion's share of those cases, about 1.9 million together.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/hea...es-or-bacteria

Now the kicker.......The human immune system can not only recognize and eliminate pathogens, but also cancer cells. Therefore, treatments with weakened pathogens can help the immune system fight cancer. Researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Infection Biology in Berlin have genetically modified the BCG tuberculosis vaccine so that it stimulates the immune system in a more targeted manner. As a result, the new vaccine provides significantly better protection against tuberculosis. A clinical study with bladder cancer patients has now shown that treatment with VPM1002 can successfully prevent tumor recurrence in almost half of the patients who did not previously respond to BCG therapy. The results could lead to the early approval of the drug in bladder cancer therapy.

Yes, VPM1002 is a variant of the original BCG or TB shot that we got as children, to fight a bacterial disease.....and it is now being used to fight cancer, admittedly it is only showing promise against bladder cancers which is normally one of the cancers caused from a bacterial infection.....but what I'm trying to say is that there are numerous examples out there where one drug can have multiple uses, and my guess is that there are 10,000 scientists from all over the world scrambling through their "library" of old tried-n-tested drugs to find one to fight Covid19

Evaluation of VPM1002 as a Bladder Cancer Therapy

Bladder cancer is the ninth most common cancer in the world, and is four times more common in men than in women (77). The main risk factors for developing bladder cancer include smoking, Schistosoma infection (bilharzia), and exposure to industrial chemicals (77, 78). Tumors can be non-muscle invasive, i.e., confined to the mucosa of the bladder wall, or muscle-invasive. More than seventy percent of bladder cancers are detected while they are still non-muscle invasive (79). Due to its immunostimulatory properties, repeated intravesical BCG instillation is the standard adjuvant treatment for intermediate to high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer (NMIBC) after transurethral resection of the tumors (80–82). BCG therapy reduces the risk of recurrence and the progression to muscle invasive bladder cancer. The repeated instillations require much higher doses and volumes of BCG than vaccination against TB does, and some patients have adverse events that lead to discontinuation of the therapy (83, 84). Adverse events include fever, bladder irritation, decreased bladder capacity, incontinence, hematuria, flu-like symptoms and in approximately 5% of cases, BCG infection (85, 86). Patients undergoing traumatic catheterization are at risk for intraluminal BCG dissemination, resulting in a potentially lethal systemic infection (87).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5610719/

[tarquinbeech]

Correct, nobody has said they were the same....here is merely one definition:
Bacteria and viruses are both microscopic microbes. Both of them can cause diseases in plants and animals. Both these types of microbes contain enzymes required for the DNA replication and protein synthesis. But, viruses require a host organism for the production of viral coat proteins. Therefore, they should invade a second organism for their replication. On the other hand, bacteria can reproduce independently by binary fission. Both microbes consist of a huge diversity compared to other life forms. The key difference between bacteria and virus is the consideration of each form as a living or non-*living organism

Both bacteria and viruses can attack or invade the human body, and we have an immune system specifically designed to fight back.
We were discussing (as are various governments around the World) whether the deliberate "triggering" of our immune system FROM ONE UNRELATED DRUG OR VACCINE, might have benefits in fighting another....let me give you one specific example.

Here is a copy-n-paste of general blurb on cancers:
Strictly speaking, cancer is not contagious. But a fair number of cancers are clearly caused by viral or bacterial infections: lymphomas can be triggered by the Epstein-Barr virus, which also causes mononucleosis. Liver cancers can be caused by Hepatitis B and C. Cervical cancers can be caused by human papillomavirus, the major reason behind the development of a vaccine against it. For some of these cancers, nearly 100% of the cases have an infectious link---when researchers check to see if a virus or bacterium is working in the tumor or has left signs of its presence in a patient's blood, the answer is nearly always yes.
A new paper in The Lancet takes a look at the very best data on the prevalence of infection-caused cancers and comes up with some striking numbers. Overall, they estimate that 16% of cancer cases worldwide in 2008 had an infectious cause---2 million out of 12.7 million.
Hepatitis B and C, HPV, and Helicobacter pylori, a bacterium that triggers stomach cancer, caused the lion's share of those cases, about 1.9 million together.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/hea...es-or-bacteria

Now the kicker.......The human immune system can not only recognize and eliminate pathogens, but also cancer cells. Therefore, treatments with weakened pathogens can help the immune system fight cancer. Researchers at the Max Planck Institute for Infection Biology in Berlin have genetically modified the BCG tuberculosis vaccine so that it stimulates the immune system in a more targeted manner. As a result, the new vaccine provides significantly better protection against tuberculosis. A clinical study with bladder cancer patients has now shown that treatment with VPM1002 can successfully prevent tumor recurrence in almost half of the patients who did not previously respond to BCG therapy. The results could lead to the early approval of the drug in bladder cancer therapy.

Yes, VPM1002 is a variant of the original BCG or TB shot that we got as children, to fight a bacterial disease.....and it is now being used to fight cancer, admittedly it is only showing promise against bladder cancers which is normally one of the cancers caused from a bacterial infection.....but what I'm trying to say is that there are numerous examples out there where one drug can have multiple uses, and my guess is that there are 10,000 scientists from all over the world scrambling through their "library" of old tried-n-tested drugs to find one to fight Covid19

Evaluation of VPM1002 as a Bladder Cancer Therapy

Bladder cancer is the ninth most common cancer in the world, and is four times more common in men than in women (77). The main risk factors for developing bladder cancer include smoking, Schistosoma infection (bilharzia), and exposure to industrial chemicals (77, 78). Tumors can be non-muscle invasive, i.e., confined to the mucosa of the bladder wall, or muscle-invasive. More than seventy percent of bladder cancers are detected while they are still non-muscle invasive (79). Due to its immunostimulatory properties, repeated intravesical BCG instillation is the standard adjuvant treatment for intermediate to high-risk non-muscle-invasive bladder cancer (NMIBC) after transurethral resection of the tumors (80–82). BCG therapy reduces the risk of recurrence and the progression to muscle invasive bladder cancer. The repeated instillations require much higher doses and volumes of BCG than vaccination against TB does, and some patients have adverse events that lead to discontinuation of the therapy (83, 84). Adverse events include fever, bladder irritation, decreased bladder capacity, incontinence, hematuria, flu-like symptoms and in approximately 5% of cases, BCG infection (85, 86). Patients undergoing traumatic catheterization are at risk for intraluminal BCG dissemination, resulting in a potentially lethal systemic infection (87).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5610719/

....and here Banjo, are 9 drugs successfully repurposed to fight other diseases.....it's a bit like discovering that your Notts goalie is actually your best penalty-taker!


Raloxifene: The FDA approved Raloxifene to reduce the risk of invasive breast cancer in postmenopausal women in 2007. It was initially developed to treat osteoporosis.
.
Thalidomide: This drug started out as a sedative in the late fifties, and soon doctors were infamously prescribing it to prevent nausea in pregnant women. It later caused thousands of severe birth defects, most notably phocomelia, which results in malformed arms and legs. In 1998, thalidomide found a new use as a treatment for leprosy and in 2006 it was approved for multiple myeloma, a bone marrow cancer.
.
Tamoxifen: This hormone therapy treats metastatic breast cancers, or those that have spread to other parts of the body, in both women and men, and it was originally approved in 1977. Thirty years later, researchers discovered that it also helps people with bipolar disorder by blocking the enzyme PKC, which goes into overdrive during the manic phase of the disorder.
.
Rapamycin: This antibiotic, also called sirolimus, was first discovered in bacteria-laced soil from Easter Island in the seventies, and the FDA approved it in 1999 to prevent organ transplant rejection. Since then, researchers have found it effective in treating not one but two diseases: Autoimmune Lymphoproliferative Syndrome (ALPS), in which the body produces too many immune cells called lymphocytes, and lymphangioleiomyomatosis, a rare lung disease.
.
Lomitapide: Intended to lower cholesterol and triglycerides, the FDA approved this drug to treat a rare genetic disorder that causes severe cholesterol problems called homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia last December.
.
Pentostatin: This drug was created as a chemotherapy for specific types of leukemia. It was tested first in T-cell-related leukemias, which didn’t respond to the drug. But later NIH’s National Cancer Institute discovered that the drug was successful in treating a rare leukemia that is B-cell related, called Hairy Cell Leukemia.
.
Sodium nitrite: This salt was first developed as an antidote to cyanide poisoning and, unrelated to medicine, it’s also used to cure meat. The National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute is currently recruiting participants for a sodium nitrite clinical trial, in which the drug will be tested as a treatment for the chronic leg ulcers associated with sickle cell and other blood disorders.

[tarquinbeech]

....the other 2 were zidovudine (AZT), the first antiviral approved for HIV/AIDS in 1987 and, more recently, farnesyltransferase inhibitor (FTI), which was used to successfully treat children with the rapid-aging disease Progeria in a 2012 clinical trial.

Here in excellent TedTalk explaining the work being done to repurpose ready-made drugs....14 minutes long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_0aEezKvBE

[tarquinbeech]

Before I give the answer....a few facts.

Most of us carry around a multitude of viruses and bacteria that happily co-exist with each other, interact with our own bodies (and others), boosting our immune system....occasionally we get poorly, recover and get stronger....most of us will only die of old age, our bodies just worn out from overuse, excessive revving.
The gardeners amongst us will last the longest, not just because we eat non-chemically-altered food, but because we immerse our hands in trillions of live bacteria every day, simply sloshing our hands around in a cold rain-water bucket before downing another beer.....minute doses of new immunity every day.

So, the better our immune system, the more prepared we are to fight off a new corona (crown)-type virus....and the complete opposite proves the point ie those with immune-deficient bodily systems like HIV or AIDS can die from the simplest of diseases unless they get immediate medical intervention.

The Oldies amongst us will naturally die first, we know that, but if we have now stopped smoking and allowed our lungs to at least partially repair themselves, live outside the industrial areas and breathe cleaner air, eat non-chemical food, non-fatty foods, fresh greens, 30 minutes of exercise per day etc etc....our chances will get better of surviving old-age and these newly-emerging viruses.....ideally get back to the land and live with nature

......but what happens to us Oldies if our immune systems were giving an additional boost in our youth?.

Death rates in Europe, persons dying from Covid19 per million of population (IMO infection rates do not matter as the vast majority of people are surviving which is great news for the "herd" immunity bank. They are only relevant for not overloading hospitals and managing the return from lockdown back to a mobile society 6 months or a year from now?), so Death Rates in a table form using today's and yesterday's Worldometer figures.
Europe's "worst 5 countries for deaths" ignoring San Marino and Andorra because of their miniscule populations ie 50 dead between them caused their ppm's to sky rocket.
Spain - 297
Italy - 283 *
Belgium - 176 *
France - 137
Holland - 123 *
Three of these "worst 5" covid-hit countries (*) also WERE THE ONLY 3 European countries to have NEVER given their school-children the UK-standard Bacille Calmette-Guérin (BCG) vaccine ie the TB jab, followed up by a booster-shot several years later, as standard.(different countries had different rules ie you could request jabs if you were in high-risk groups but Italy, Belgium and Holland never adopted the mass immunisation policy. Pulled this from the TB data world map BCG mass vaccination has never been performed in Italy, but, since the 1940s, vaccination campaigns were promoted in some areas of the country. No information about the type of vaccine and mode of administration are included in national policies. Theoretically, more than one type of vaccine can be used in different parts of the country. When the national health system was reformed in 2008 (legislative decree no. 81/2008), a number of previous policies were implicitly abrogated, including the one concerning BCG vaccination (2001), although this remains a matter of debate. )

Now the next question is what about Spain and France who are getting hit hard?

Spain had a TB vaccine policy only from 1965 to 1981 whereas it's Iberian neighbour Portugal has COMPULSORY VACCINATIONS AT BIRTH, to this day......and a covid19 death rate of only 34 ppm, 8 times lower than it's neighbour with a huge land border!!

France (137 ppm) is the only one of the "worst 5" I cannot figure out, they've had a TB programme from 1950 to 2007

though they've chopped and changed the strain of vaccine a few times 2004: Stopped revaccinations of children and adults of certain professions; 2004: Routine tuberculin tests stopped; 2006: Multipuncture (Monovax) replaced by BCG ID (BCG SSI); 2007: Compulsory vaccination suspended and replaced by targeted vaccination of high-risk children

Lastly looked at South America, where the highest death rate was in Ecuador (highlighted by Driller a few days ago)
Ecuador - 11 ppm (*)
Brazil - 3
Chile - 2
Peru - 3
Argentina - 1
Columbia - 1
Uruguay - 2

.....and lo and behold, Ecuador is the only South American country not to currently have a universal TB jab (found some old medical papers showing vaccination in the past, 1961? but unclear when universally abandoned)
Interactive world map here, shows current and past BCG-TB policy....hover cursor and click on country
http://www.bcgatlas.org/

Peer-reviewed paper on BCG-TB World policy https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3062527/

Wiki details on BCG here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_vaccine quote Italy: BCG mass vaccination has never been performed in Italy.

4,000 Australian hospital workers to be trialled with the TB jab Clinical trials begin in Australia

A team of Australian researchers announced on Friday that they have started testing the tuberculosis vaccine on a large scale to see if it can protect healthcare staff from the coronavirus.

About 4,000 Australian hospital workers will participate in the clinical trial that will seek to determine if the tuberculosis vaccine can reduce symptoms of COVID-19, researchers at the Murdoch Institute in Melbourne said.
https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/06/...-for-a-century

Summary - There is no conclusive evidence that a simple TB shot in our youth (I've still got my scar on my arm) was, or is, the answer but common sense tells us that any boosting of our general immune system in our childhood should help the general spread of diseases and help our chances of survival...that's just Nature's way of helping us to stay alive and building up our innate and adaptive immune system.....maybe, just maybe, the TB shot all those years ago, forced our body to recognise it was under attack and built a defense mechanism, now "stored in our genetic memory-bank".....it was worth a few hours reading for me anyway, interesting stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innate_immune_system

It has occurred to me that if you are a country with no "easy" borders ie Australia and NZ, then assuming that the infection does not start within your border, you have an automatic advantage in preventing infections and deaths (G article today).....therefore the opposite is true no matter what your level of BCG-TB immunisation was before the outbreak.

France has open land borders with 11 countries, 3 of which have the highest rates of deaths in the World:
Belgium 405 miles border....218 deaths per million
Italy 320 miles....292 deaths per million
Spain 387 miles...326 deaths per million

France (167 deaths per million) is effectively "trapped or encircled" by countries where covid19 is out of control....IMO, no amount of immunisation can prevent excessive deaths if you have free movement of people (partial border lockdown announced on 17th March)

Anyway, just a theory