O/T:- ...Has the key to a coronavirus vaccine been staring us in the face?

[drillerpie]

The TB jab theory was spoken about on the Dark Horse podcast from a couple of days ago. They seemed to think it was worth exploring.

Tarquin have you got an opinion on how the virus is being handled in the UK?

The numbers and trajectory in the UK are quite similar to the Spanish and Italian numbers from 2/3 weeks ago when you said questions must be asked about their handling of the crisis, which according to you was 'obscene', and that the figures were being massaged upwards by these governments in order to get a bailout.

You also said specifically that the Italian 10% fatality rate 'must be wrong', that the testing strategy in Italy was shambolic, and speculated that the Italian health service may be 'woefully inadequate', 'totally garbage', and 'everyone seems to die - stay at home it's safer'.

You said you'd prefer to get ill in the UK which 'tests even mild cases' and 'prepares adequately to avoid being overrun' insinuating that the feckless Italians don't.

I wonder if you have revised any of these quite scathing judgements as a lot of them would seem now to be demonstrably and clearly wrong.

[tarquinbeech]

The TB jab theory was spoken about on the Dark Horse podcast from a couple of days ago. They seemed to think it was worth exploring.

Tarquin have you got an opinion on how the virus is being handled in the UK?

The numbers and trajectory in the UK are quite similar to the Spanish and Italian numbers from 2/3 weeks ago when you said questions must be asked about their handling of the crisis, which according to you was 'obscene', and that the figures were being massaged upwards by these governments in order to get a bailout.

You also said specifically that the Italian 10% fatality rate 'must be wrong', that the testing strategy in Italy was shambolic, and speculated that the Italian health service may be 'woefully inadequate', 'totally garbage', and 'everyone seems to die - stay at home it's safer'.

You said you'd prefer to get ill in the UK which 'tests even mild cases' and 'prepares adequately to avoid being overrun' insinuating that the feckless Italians don't.

I wonder if you have revised any of these quite scathing judgements as a lot of them would seem now to be demonstrably and clearly wrong.

Wow, someone must be getting bored to have to fish out every single thing that I may have said (I haven't checked them yet, but I'm not sure there's any point as I recognise it when you are about to go off on one of your epic witch-hunts) that they disagree with....then to compress them all into one post to provoke a reaction.

So let's start with what we DO agree on, correct me if I'm wrong, no correction implies that we have consensus:
We both agreed that Northern Italy had horrific levels of air pollution (I produced an interactive map)
We both agreed that there were high levels of old-age in Italy (higher than the EU average?)
We both agreed that current smoking levels in Italy were amongst the lowest levels in Europe....I have since postulated that previous smoking levels may be an issue if lung scarring was still in place. I don't think you have taken exception? (no idea how, or if, lungs "repair" themselves....one of us needs to do more homework)
We have both agreed (in the past) that Italy has historically had fiscally corrupt governments. I remember you citing Berlusconi, and telling me that "Italian politics was doing it's best to clean up it's act".
You yourself said (I think) that Italy had been "overrun" or taken by surprise by the rapid turn of events......I said therefore that your system was garbage, immediately apologised, and you won't let it go....sobeit.

Now the stuff that's controversial (you have such a long list, it's difficult to know where to start!)

I predicted that there would be huge discrepancies in the way that differing countries "classified their dead"....you mentioned that the German Federal system of reporting meant that rural doctors were not performing autopsies ie their numbers were too low....I merely postulate that the Italian figures are "deliberately" on the high side to gain EU bailouts.
I am not saying that their figures are "faked" merely "inflated" ie Eddie Large of Little and Large is allegedly included in the Italian figures on the basis that he once had a weekend in Venice and looked a bit like Pavorotti!
Since my theory was aired, I notice that Italy has gone running to the EU for coronabonds "to help them through the current crisis and help rebuild in the future"
Could I suggest that they use some of the helicopter-cash to keep their road bridges upright, I notice another mysteriously fell over the other day despite having had a recent inspection.

'everyone seems to die - stay at home it's safer'.....yes, I stand by that, in fact it's almost the same as the briefing motto on the UK lecterns....stay at home, stay safe, protect the NHS

´tests even mild cases' and 'prepares adequately to avoid being overrun´.......not sure I said the first bit (the main criticism of the UK is under-testing!)....2nd bit 100% agree....additional 10,000 hospital beds put together in record time across the country under military leadership....Proud to be British....maybe we should go out and help the Italians, whose PM was on Aljazeera 30 minutes ago admitting (once again) that they "got it wrong" but are now "almost" on top of the situation.


'The numbers and trajectory in the UK are quite similar to the Spanish and Italian numbers from 2/3 weeks ago when you said questions must be asked about their handling of the crisis'....early days yet, but with UK deaths at 105 ppm and Spain and Italy at 326 and 302 respectively, statistics demonstrably show which country has the higher survival rate currently.

[drillerpie]

Right ok well I'm not really interested in Coronabonds, air pollution, Silvio Berlusconi, what you've seen on Al Jazeera, lung scarring or whatever else, so no consensus to be inferred.

I just wanted to ask a simple and politely put question: do you stand by the rather extreme statements you made two weeks ago about Italy?

A simple yes or no would suffice, but I see you've thrown the full bowl of word salad at me, so I'll take the points one by one, starting with deaths per million inhabitants.

This can be a very misleading statistic for a number of reasons, but you seem to like it so let's go with it.

On the 26th of March you wrote:

No deaths are good, but the rates seen in Italy (136ppm) and Spain (93ppm) are obscene

The UK scientists at the briefings have said at various times that the UK is between 2 and 4 weeks behind Italy. You said two weeks ago that these levels were obscene. Do you still stand by that?

[tarquinbeech]

Right ok well I'm not really interested in Coronabonds, air pollution, Silvio Berlusconi, what you've seen on Al Jazeera, lung scarring or whatever else, so no consensus to be inferred.

I just wanted to ask a simple and politely put question: do you stand by the rather extreme statements you made two weeks ago about Italy?

A simple yes or no would suffice, but I see you've thrown the full bowl of word salad at me, so I'll take the points one by one, starting with deaths per million inhabitants.

This can be a very misleading statistic for a number of reasons, but you seem to like it so let's go with it.

On the 26th of March you wrote:



The UK scientists at the briefings have said at various times that the UK is between 2 and 4 weeks behind Italy. You said two weeks ago that these levels were obscene. Do you still stand by that?

UK deaths are currently one-third of the ratio of Italian and Spanish deaths.......UK deaths are, today, 105 ppm and Spain and Italy at 326 and 302 respectively......I cannot recall the number of UK deaths on 26th March but I´m sure they were nowhere as "obscene" as those above ie 136 ppm and 93 ppm

[tarquinbeech]

Right ok well I'm not really interested in Coronabonds, air pollution, Silvio Berlusconi, what you've seen on Al Jazeera, lung scarring or whatever else, so no consensus to be inferred

Ah, so you start a lengthy post discussing a whole range of topics, a whole "word salad".....then when I reply, you dismiss all my answers and cherry-pick one point....you are not the smartest of debaters are you?

[drillerpie]

Ah, so you start a lengthy post discussing a whole range of topics, a whole "word salad".....then when I reply, you dismiss all my answers and cherry-pick one point....you are not the smartest of debaters are you?

Distraction bait.

[drillerpie]

UK deaths are currently one-third of the ratio of Italian and Spanish deaths.......UK deaths are, today, 105 ppm and Spain and Italy at 326 and 302 respectively......I cannot recall the number of UK deaths on 26th March but I´m sure they were nowhere as "obscene" as those above ie 136 ppm and 93 ppm

You put obscene in inverted commas, does that mean you stand by it or not?

[tarquinbeech]

I just wanted to ask a simple and politely put question: do you stand by the rather extreme statements you made two weeks ago about Italy?

....but you didn't just ask one question did you? you asked several.....then you dismissed my lengthy and factual reply (which I thought was extremely arrogant of you) which I have noticed you do a lot on here, especially when you meet intellectually superior people.....quite simply, you move the goalposts.

When all that fails....you write to head office to get them barred for life.....

Why would I attempt to have a discussion with

[tarquinbeech]

A simple yes or no would suffice

A "simple yes or no"?........wow, if you followed your own advice then your verbose postings would dry up to virtually nothing....long live the power of diverse argument and opinion

[drillerpie]

When all that fails....you write to head office to get them barred for life.....

Uh ohh, something tells me things are about to get sweary.

More distraction bait.