O/T:- Should he stay or should he go? WARNING - POLITICAL THREAD!!!!

[countygump]

I always thought we would evently get by with or without Brexit.

What the pandemic has shown not just Europe but the world just how hopeless we really are and we have brought it on ourselves by selling off trades & outsourcing work over the years.

The PPE stuff being a prime example we had to go to Turkey to try and get this and we all saw the end result of that.

Of course the positive mind will say its a chance to rebuild but my concern is can we trust the people in charge ?

Absolutely. Once you lose the infrastructure and the trained staff, it's difficult to get back. Can you imagine how quickly the thousands of Hosiery workers that we, (Nottingham) have lost could have been reassigned into making PPE? I understand the financial reasons but it seems cheap is not always necessarily cheerful. If you look at most other European Countries, they still manufacture cars, they have railway systems that put ours to shame, why?

[the_anticlough]

I can't see why they would want it to fail.

Where's the evidence for that?

Could be far worse - Trump apparently wants Twitter shut down but imo has incited trouble, not dealt with it - using Twitter!

He is a dangerous man.

We know the Govt is incompetent, the only thing this shower are qualified to do is fix the economic system to benefit themselves and their friends. But the shambles they're overseeing goes beyond that...

- total screw up of test and trace so far
- open borders for importing the virus, constant stream of untested arrivals at airports
- sending it back to unprotected care homes to send thousands of poor residents to their graves
- undermining it's own public health messages by backing 1 man's job over the welfare of millions
- way too late lockdown and premature opening - ''herd immunity'' policy implemented by stealth..

The list goes on and on. Come on, everyone can see their hearts are not in it. A state coordinated public health campaign? This is the last thing these free market ideologues wanted power for. Lack of commitment/competence or deliberate under performance, it amounts to the same thing anyway .....

Number 2 in the world for total deaths
Number 2 for total excess deaths per million

When are some people going to wise up?

[dam617]

We know the Govt is incompetent, the only thing this shower are qualified to do is fix the economic system to benefit themselves and their friends. But the shambles they're overseeing goes beyond that...

- total screw up of test and trace so far
- open borders for importing the virus, constant stream of untested arrivals at airports
- sending it back to unprotected care homes to send thousands of poor residents to their graves
- undermining it's own public health messages by backing 1 man's job over the welfare of millions
- way too late lockdown and premature opening - ''herd immunity'' policy implemented by stealth..

The list goes on and on. Come on, everyone can see their hearts are not in it. A state coordinated public health campaign? This is the last thing these free market ideologues wanted power for. Lack of commitment/competence or deliberate under performance, it amounts to the same thing anyway .....

Number 2 in the world for total deaths
Number 2 for total excess deaths per million

When are some people going to wise up?

Wise up? That's funny .

Herd Immunity should have be initiated straight away.
Number 2 in the world for total deaths! From what? Covid1984?
They're'with Covid' not 'of' it - you might as well say they died 'with noses'.

My neighbour is a heart surgeon in a Leicestershire hospital and reckons it's criminal, an absolute disgrace to have changed the procedure for issuing death certificates.

Wise up yourself.

[the_anticlough]

You're the sort who would thank the tories on your death bed, it'd be your 'last gasp' as Pfeffel joked about it (before he caught it).

And as you're a Forest fan anyway, let me tell you that you can stuff your 'with it/ of it / 1984' bull crap back up your Trent End.

[Disturbed]

We know the Govt is incompetent, the only thing this shower are qualified to do is fix the economic system to benefit themselves and their friends. But the shambles they're overseeing goes beyond that...

- total screw up of test and trace so far
- open borders for importing the virus, constant stream of untested arrivals at airports
- sending it back to unprotected care homes to send thousands of poor residents to their graves
- undermining it's own public health messages by backing 1 man's job over the welfare of millions
- way too late lockdown and premature opening - ''herd immunity'' policy implemented by stealth..

The list goes on and on. Come on, everyone can see their hearts are not in it. A state coordinated public health campaign? This is the last thing these free market ideologues wanted power for. Lack of commitment/competence or deliberate under performance, it amounts to the same thing anyway .....

Number 2 in the world for total deaths
Number 2 for total excess deaths per million

When are some people going to wise up?

Maybe you need to look at the guidelines given for the admission of people into care homes as if those rules were followed then there would not be as many deaths in care homes.
There have been cases of the notes being altered in hospital, so is that the fault of the government?
We can criticize the government on may other things, but to put everything down to them is just wrong

[Elite_Pie]

Wise up? That's funny .

Herd Immunity should have be initiated straight away.
Number 2 in the world for total deaths! From what? Covid1984?
They're'with Covid' not 'of' it - you might as well say they died 'with noses'.

My neighbour is a heart surgeon in a Leicestershire hospital and reckons it's criminal, an absolute disgrace to have changed the procedure for issuing death certificates.

Wise up yourself.

Yeah, wise up like dam617 has done you lot. Just google a load of white supremacist websites, then you'll get the unbiased truth.

[BigFatPie]

Didn't be call a lady a bigot when he still had his microphone on?

She was a bigot, and he shouldn’t have apologised for saying so.

[i961pie]

No she wasn't she asked a question that showed concern about immigration but that wasn't allowed.
Anyone who dare mention immigration at that time was labelled a racist, you being a prime example.
Even the biased BBC lambasted him. He didn't last long after that.

[BigFatPie]

No she wasn't she asked a question that showed concern about immigration but that wasn't allowed.
Anyone who dare mention immigration at that time was labelled a racist, you being a prime example.
Even the biased BBC lambasted him. He didn't last long after that.

Not really no, she was groundlessly moaning about Eastern European immigrunts, he should have responded by telling her how much of a contribution they make, and how immigration makes us all better off.

You appear to think that nob from Cambridge is a right laugh, so no surprise that you agree with her sentiments.

[countygump]

You wouldn't believe this was still on-line after all this time.



Gillian Duffy, 65, heckled the prime minister as he was interviewed live on TV in Rochdale. Brown initially ignored her but was then asked by senior aides in his entourage to meet her.

Duffy: We had it drummed in when I was a child with mine … it was education, health service and looking after the people who are vulnerable. But there's too many people now who are vulnerable but they can claim and people who are vulnerable can't get claim, can't get it.

Brown: But they shouldn't be doing that, there is no life on the dole for people any more. If you are unemployed you've got to go back to work. It's six months.

Duffy: You can't say anything about the immigrants because you're saying that you're … but all these eastern European what are coming in, where are they flocking from?

Later, as he was leaving


Brown: Very good to meet you, and you're wearing the right colour today. Ha, ha, ha: How many grandchildren do you have?

Duffy: Two. They've just got back from Australia where they got stuck for 10 days. They couldn't get back with this ash crisis.

Brown: We've been trying to get people back quickly. Are they going to university. Is that the plan?

Duffy: I hope so. They're only 12 and 10.

Brown: Are they're doing well at school? [pats Duffy on the back] A good family, good to see you. It's very nice to see you.

In the car

Brown: That was a disaster. Well I just ... should never have put me in with that woman. Whose idea was that?

Aide: I don't know, I didn't see.

Brown: It was Sue [Nye] I think. It was just ridiculous.

Aide: I'm not sure if they [the media] will go with that.

Brown: They will go with that.

Aide: What did she say?

Brown: Oh everything, she was just a sort of bigoted woman. She said she used be Labour. I mean it's just ridiculous.

On BBC Radio 2's Jeremy Vine show

Brown: I apologise if I have said anything like that. What I think she was raising with me was an issue of immigration and saying that there were too many people from eastern Europe in the country. I do apologise if I have said anything that has been hurtful, and I will apologise to her personally.

After playing a recording of Brown's comments

Vine: Is she not allowed to express her views?

Brown: Of course she's allowed to express a view, and I was saying that. The problem was that I was dealing with a question that she raised about immigration and I was not given a chance to answer it because we had a whole milieu of press around.

Of course I apologise if I have said anything that has been offensive, and I would never put myself in a position where I would want to say anything like that about a woman I met. It was a question about immigration that really I think was annoying.

Vine: You're blaming a member of staff there.

Brown: I'm blaming myself. I blame myself for what is done. You've got to remember that this was me being helpful to the broadcasters with my microphone on, rushing into the car because I had to get to another appointment.

"They have chosen to play my private conversation with the person who was in the car with me. I know these things can happen. I apologise profusely to the woman concerned. I think it was just the view that she expressed that I was worried about that I could not respond to.

After hearing of Brown's comments

Duffy: He's an educated person, why has he come out with words like that? He's supposed to lead this country and he's calling an ordinary woman who's just come up and asked questions what most people would ask him – he's not doing anything about the national debt and it's going to be tax, tax, tax for another 20 years to get out of this mess – and he's calling me a bigot. I thought he was understanding – but he wasn't, was he, the way he's come out with the comments.

Brown's statement after visiting Duffy to apologise in person

Brown: I've just been talking to Gillian. I'm mortified by what's happened. I've given her my sincere apologies. I misunderstood what she said, and she has accepted there was a misunderstanding and has accepted my apology.

If you like, I'm a penitent sinner. Sometimes you say things you don't mean to say, sometimes you say things by mistake and sometimes you say things you want to correct very quickly.

So I wanted to come here and say that I made a mistake but to also to say I understood the concerns she was bringing to me and I simply misunderstood some of the words she used. I made my apology.

I've come here – it's been a chance to talk to Gillian about her family, her relatives and her own history and what she has done, but most of all it's been a chance to apologise and say sorry, and to say sometimes you do make mistakes and you use the wrong words and once you've used the wrong word and made a mistake you should withdraw it and say profound apologies and that's what I've done.