Transfer in's and out's rumours etc.

[pete1967b]

Sorry OWT, those comparisons just don't stand up.

Martial appeared 32 times in the league for Scum last season, strike ratio of 1 in 2 appearances in all competitions
Jimenenz appeared 38 times in the league for Wolves, and again, strike ratio of 1 in 2 appearances in all competitions
Richarlison slightly less attractive, appeared 36 times in the league for Everton, strike rate of 1 in 2.5(ish) in all competitions

Rodrigo appeared for Valencia 27 times in 2019/20, strike rate 1 in 5 in all competitions (and worthy of note that that drops to 1 in 7 in the league, and has dropped off a cliff since the 2017/18 season, so were taking a gamble on being able to reverse AND improve that, on a player who last played in the PL in 2010/11. Better ways to spend the clubs money)

You're spot on, if we were linked with any of the three players you refer to, happy days. Not so much with a crocked player (passed medical or not) who scores less frequently than Bamford, who at least we know will run his heart out for the club AND contributes while doing so.

Why cant you just wait and see what happens before passing your judgements, and if he passes his medical then he cant be crocked can he..

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Will be very interesting to see how 'crocked" of a player he is. You did forget to mention his assists as well as the fact Valencia did not use him as their primary striker in the attack last year. The level of play is also much high than the championship. wish he was not 25-30 million but that's just where the market is. That's why signing young players and developing them is at such a premium right now.

I suspect he'll be much better than Pablo.

Pretty good company.

Nothing says that MB won't play both Rod and Bamford at the same time.

Agree on developing players - Leipzig and Dortmund seem to do it well. Anyone remember Juve of the 1990s they would have world class players - sell them and replace with players who turned into world class players.

With all the young players brought in during the last couple of years and those who are home grown it looks like we could have at least 2 who really make it and maybe as many as 6 or 7 plus.

Can’t wait to see how Gotts, Bogusz, McAlmont, Linton, Geldhert and Struijk develop.

Arguably Shack, Davis and Meslier have already pushed through to the first team.

[WTF11]

Why cant you just wait and see what happens before passing your judgements, and if he passes his medical then he cant be crocked can he..

"and if he passes his medical then he cant be crocked can he?" Hmmmmm, we will see.

Why should I "wait and see what happens" when the club I support is about to devote a large chunk of whatever transfer budget there might be to a player with no track record worth speaking of in the PL and whos strike rate is inferior to Bamford, who most would acknowledge is not going to be an adequate strike force in the PL? Oh, I know, because I should trust Orta and his scouting "experts"? Err. no.

I genuinely hesitate to criticise Bielsa, acknowledging that he has been instrumental in getting us promoted, but......even since he arrived, our record in bringing in new players is hardly comforting. A sample (the list is potentially very long) Brown, here today, gone tomorrow without ever really contributing, Sackho, ran around a lot but contributed next to nothing, Nketiah was brought in, showed promise but Bielsas stubbornness resulted in limited game time and a recall by Arsenal, Casilla (less said the better), JKA (Ditto).

Plenty of others brought in but never used or if used rapidly extricated from 1st team exposure and subsequently disposed of (e.g. Halme, Cibicki etc)

So all this "the player gets my full support" stuff is all well and good, and despite what I'm saying objectively, about his potential, I wish him well, I just don't expect it, and as lots of those who post here have said, for all the riches of the PL, we don't come close to having the funds that the top 6 can access, so £36m on a gamble isn't sensible, but it IS par for the course when it comes to Ortas record.

[spaldy]

I used OWTs mention of comparable players, and mentioned strike rate only for both.

Wherever Rodrigo was used, we need a striker, not another player to provide Bamford with assists he doesn't put away! Is it too much to suggest that the club focus on areas we really need to strengthen (and not the U23s!)

I suspect Gelhardt (if he gets 1st team time, not U23) will prove more valuable than this £36m "investment"

I think you know that MB does not really play a true striker in his set up; at least as far as the championhip was concerned. he expects his striker to get back on restarts, trail back on attacks at times and to set up others. Bamford does all of those things and does them for long periods of time. I also think this could be even more critical in the prem than in the championship.

what if you had a player that did all those things and also hit his striking opportunities? if Rodrigo can do that it's a game changer for us.

Having a true striker that just sits up front and waits for chances does not appear to be what MB is all about. No doubt we'd score a lot more but we'd also give up control of the game more often. If you don't control the attack you'll fail with his system and he knows it.

if Gelhardt or any of the youth players get back as well as strike they'll get a chance to play this year. Going to be some ugly games for us and we'll likely given them a chance.

[hopelesslyoptimistic]

Not sure how any of us can criticise Bielsa - in terms of players coming in some were on loan such as Brown whom you refer to but loan players can be notoriously hit or miss. Look at White - huge hit or Lewis Baker - big miss. With the EFL rules we had no choice but to loan players in or breach FFP etc.

I have been fairly impressed with the signings we have made since MB came in both in the youth ranks and to the first team.

Costa
Harrison
Douglas
Bamford (for all we wish he had more Shearer in him)
Casilla
Meslier

All improved the squad even if we wish we could have got better players sometimes - they were good with what we could afford.

This season will be a continuation of that gradual improvement of the squad. We also have no idea of which players are ear marked as being ready to step up from the reserves.

For me Bielsa is as good as any manager since Wilko and may prove to be even better. The football at times is sensational and on others frustrating. Under Warnock and his ilk it was largely frustrating, rubbish and no fun to watch.

We have made real substantial progress but for some it is still doom and gloom.

This season will an exciting challenge - bring it on.

[WTF11]

I think you know that MB does not really play a true striker in his set up; at least as far as the championhip was concerned. he expects his striker to get back on restarts, trail back on attacks at times and to set up others. Bamford does all of those things and does them for long periods of time. I also think this could be even more critical in the prem than in the championship.

what if you had a player that did all those things and also hit his striking opportunities? if Rodrigo can do that it's a game changer for us.

Having a true striker that just sits up front and waits for chances does not appear to be what MB is all about. No doubt we'd score a lot more but we'd also give up control of the game more often. If you don't control the attack you'll fail with his system and he knows it.

if Gelhardt or any of the youth players get back as well as strike they'll get a chance to play this year. Going to be some ugly games for us and we'll likely given them a chance.

Not disagreeing with any of that, Bielsa probably doesn't have in his mind a "typical" striker role", just don't think that Rodrigo fits the description you give. 2 years older than Bamford, no experience of the Bielsa way of playing, so will need time to acclimatise, time we don't have, injured for almost a third of last season and with no match experience for around the last 6 months, and we're rumoured to be paying the largest ever Leeds transfer fee for him?

[WTF11]

Not sure how any of us can criticise Bielsa - in terms of players coming in some were on loan such as Brown whom you refer to but loan players can be notoriously hit or miss. Look at White - huge hit or Lewis Baker - big miss. With the EFL rules we had no choice but to loan players in or breach FFP etc.

I have been fairly impressed with the signings we have made since MB came in both in the youth ranks and to the first team.

Costa
Harrison
Douglas
Bamford (for all we wish he had more Shearer in him)
Casilla
Meslier

All improved the squad even if we wish we could have got better players sometimes - they were good with what we could afford.

This season will be a continuation of that gradual improvement of the squad. We also have no idea of which players are ear marked as being ready to step up from the reserves.

For me Bielsa is as good as any manager since Wilko and may prove to be even better. The football at times is sensational and on others frustrating. Under Warnock and his ilk it was largely frustrating, rubbish and no fun to watch.

We have made real substantial progress but for some it is still doom and gloom.

This season will an exciting challenge - bring it on.

I'm suggesting that despite his unquestioned coaching capabilities (look at what he did with a middling squad in both 2018/19 and 19/20), he isn't entirely successful in terms of either loan players or permanent signings, the record would support that.

You mention just about the only successes achieved since he arrived at the club since June 2018 (although how you can put Casilla in that list is beyond me). There are literally scores of players that have been brought in never to be seen again before being transferred out, or played once/twice and then discarded (go to TransferMarkt, they are all there).

As always, when I post something critical of the club (in whatever area of its operations) I am accused of suggesting all is "doom and gloom", rather than voicing scepticism about the ability of our DoF to identify and acquire real quality additions to the 1st team squad, and of the coach to either challenge what Orta proposes, or identify the weaknesses in those proposed, the record in that area simply doesn't come close to the magic that Bielsa has worked with the squad he has.

[OldWhiteTaff]

As always, when I post something critical of the club (in whatever area of its operations) I am accused of suggesting all is "doom and gloom", rather than voicing scepticism about the ability of our DoF to identify and acquire real quality additions to the 1st team squad, and of the coach to either challenge what Orta proposes, or identify the weaknesses in those proposed, the record in that area simply doesn't come close to the magic that Bielsa has worked with the squad he has.

No I get what you're saying, there have been numerous iffy transfers, and also questions regarding MB's use even of those that looked like they could have contributed more given more opportunities (Nketiah + Brown top of that list), and that doesn't go away just because his world class coaching has got us into the PL against pretty high odds. The point I was trying to make was that overall Rodrigo is considered a top echelon attacking player - he's a Spanish international, which is a level of transfer we've not seen since the O'Leary days, even if his goal-scoring record doesn't look great in isolation. So I wouldn't judge him purely on his goal scoring record. That doesn't mean we've haven't still got a goal scoring problem to solve. I'd suggest we still also have a CB problem to solve at least.

[Jezleeds]

Confirmation from his agent that White will not be moving this summer TO LEEDS.

Clearly he'll be moving somewhere, probably Man City or Liverpool, so i guess the John Stones option might come back on the table. Speaking to a work colleague Arsenal fan, Holding is more of a stopper than a ballplaying defender, so if we get him perhaps we are going to get a second CB, because two Coopers aren't going to stop two thirds of the strikers in the PL.

[asturianblanco]

cant believe some are questioning Rodrigo? i mean, i get WTF11, clearly not a Leeds fan, but there are others also.
This boy is quality.
dont look at his strike rate, hes more like Pablo but with a fantastic engine, can play left, right or through the middle, exactly the sort of versatility that Bielsa looks for. usually in double figures for goals, but missed some games through injury last season, and coupled with how cr@p Valencia were didnt get so many.
This is a player that R Madrid, Barça and Atletico were fighting over last summer with numbers in the region of 60-100M being thrown around.
Anyone thinking hes not good enough for Leeds needs to give their head a wobble, hes one of the best players in La Liga ffs!