O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Ram59]

I'll agree that we were wise to go our own way, the procurement programme was different from the actual vaccine programme, where we do indeed at this early stage appear to be doing better than the EU, though in reality it will be 6 months before it becomes clear.

Germany have also run a parallel procurement programme which is why they have additional vaccines, although i note that Pfizer are saying there will be reduced supply for a few days whilst they ramp up production.

Glad you're gradually coming round to my way of thinking Swale.

Germany's procurement plan is not parallel though, they were only allowed to do it after the EU plan and only allowed to take deliveries after the EU allocation had been made. What's just come to light and is interesting though, is that despite the EU procurement plan allocating the share of the order around the EU, it's up to individual states to arrange the timing of these deliveries.

Which I find astonishing coming from an all for one and one for all, equal society. I wonder how big rich Germany gets theirs quicker than little poor Bulgaria?

You've previously correctly mentioned that we missed out on the early distribution of the Moderna vaccine, well this early distribution amounts to 50,000 jabs for the whole of the EU this quarter, our share would have been about 6,000. Compare this with the 250,000 jabs issued today, alone, in the UK and you'll realise that it's of no significance at all.

It'll be interesting to see if the UK vaccination programme is affected by the Pfizer hold up.

[Andy_Faber]

It'll be interesting to see if the UK vaccination programme is affected by the Pfizer hold up.

Not making any sort of party political point, but my balanced view would be:

1. The early numbers suggest UK won't quite make the 15 target on time

2. We (UK as a whole) aren't half having a good pop at it

Whoever's involved in whatever way, stick at it! (you too Ram if you've been given a role yet)

[Ram59]

Not making any sort of party political point, but my balanced view would be:

1. The early numbers suggest UK won't quite make the 15 target on time

2. We (UK as a whole) aren't half having a good pop at it

Whoever's involved in whatever way, stick at it! (you too Ram if you've been given a role yet)

I've been accepted, but I had problems with logging in, on the app, but hopefully that's sorted now. I'll be signing on tomorrow morning, but back of for the match. We'll see how it goes.

Johnson brought out some amazing figures earlier, which raised more questions. Cheltenham and a couple of other places have given the jab to over 90% of their over 80s, how?

Are they getting more government funding?
It's their local NHS, just more efficient?
Are NHS workers and carers missing out?
It's their low ethnicity rate a factor?
It's their over 80s population very low?
It's there some other reason?

The reason needs to be found, in order to help with the rest of the vaccination programme.

[Manofpride]

[Andy_Faber]

I've been accepted, but I had problems with logging in, on the app, but hopefully that's sorted now. I'll be signing on tomorrow morning, but back of for the match. We'll see how it goes.

Johnson brought out some amazing figures earlier, which raised more questions. Cheltenham and a couple of other places have given the jab to over 90% of their over 80s, how?

Are they getting more government funding?
It's their local NHS, just more efficient?
Are NHS workers and carers missing out?
It's their low ethnicity rate a factor?
It's their over 80s population very low?
It's there some other reason?

The reason needs to be found, in order to help with the rest of the vaccination programme.

Of course there could be 'has Boris got it wrong?'

I wasn't aware of Cheltenham but I've heard twice on the wireless today that London is lagging behind because they can't (or couldn't) agree allocation WITHIN London, maybe the people up the supply chain have realised things like that and are allocating to those 'good to go'.

[Trickytreesreds]

i just knew that was coming. I've seen it in reverse on facebook.

[swaledale]

Glad you're gradually coming round to my way of thinking Swale.

Germany's procurement plan is not parallel though, they were only allowed to do it after the EU plan and only allowed to take deliveries after the EU allocation had been made. What's just come to light and is interesting though, is that despite the EU procurement plan allocating the share of the order around the EU, it's up to individual states to arrange the timing of these deliveries.

Which I find astonishing coming from an all for one and one for all, equal society. I wonder how big rich Germany gets theirs quicker than little poor Bulgaria?

You've previously correctly mentioned that we missed out on the early distribution of the Moderna vaccine, well this early distribution amounts to 50,000 jabs for the whole of the EU this quarter, our share would have been about 6,000. Compare this with the 250,000 jabs issued today, alone, in the UK and you'll realise that it's of no significance at all.

It'll be interesting to see if the UK vaccination programme is affected by the Pfizer hold up.

We are splitting hairs here, but for one, I didn't say the Uk shouldn't have had their own procurement, we disagreed as to whether they could as well as joining in the EU procurement. You say the Uk couldn't but I say they could have and from what I've seen the evidence is that we could have run a parallel programme, but you believe what you want to.

I'm not sure how Germany managed to magic up vaccine overnight then? The fact is that vaccine being delivered was ordered months ago, so whether the EU gave permission or not is irrelevant, the fact is they had a separate individual procurement of the vaccine, which you said wasn't possible. Looks like it was.

In respect of implementing vaccinations, it has always been the case that individual countries within the EU, organised their own programmes, its not logical or practical for the EU to do that centrally. There was a political aim (rather stupid one I'd agree) to deliver the first batches at the same time, but that didn't work.

The amount of vaccine ordered and delivered to each country was agreed by all members of the EU, don't know the criteria that was used, but it would be a collective decision. True I've seen bull**** stories mainly in right wing anti EU media talking about the distribution, but I'd treat with a pinch of salt anything that smacks of being anti EU. It could be true but if it was Bulgaria's decision on when to start the programme, then thats not Germany's fault is it.

And as I've already pointed out, Germany had a separate procurement of the vaccine to the Eu programme, so maybe thats why they ahve got vaccine's first? or maybe Bulgaria are just slow off the mark and **** at organisation?

[Ram59]

We are splitting hairs here, but for one, I didn't say the Uk shouldn't have had their own procurement, we disagreed as to whether they could as well as joining in the EU procurement. You say the Uk couldn't but I say they could have and from what I've seen the evidence is that we could have run a parallel programme, but you believe what you want to.

I'm not sure how Germany managed to magic up vaccine overnight then? The fact is that vaccine being delivered was ordered months ago, so whether the EU gave permission or not is irrelevant, the fact is they had a separate individual procurement of the vaccine, which you said wasn't possible. Looks like it was.

In respect of implementing vaccinations, it has always been the case that individual countries within the EU, organised their own programmes, its not logical or practical for the EU to do that centrally. There was a political aim (rather stupid one I'd agree) to deliver the first batches at the same time, but that didn't work.

The amount of vaccine ordered and delivered to each country was agreed by all members of the EU, don't know the criteria that was used, but it would be a collective decision. True I've seen bull**** stories mainly in right wing anti EU media talking about the distribution, but I'd treat with a pinch of salt anything that smacks of being anti EU. It could be true but if it was Bulgaria's decision on when to start the programme, then thats not Germany's fault is it.

And as I've already pointed out, Germany had a separate procurement of the vaccine to the Eu programme, so maybe thats why they ahve got vaccine's first? or maybe Bulgaria are just slow off the mark and **** at organisation?

That's your problem Swale, you refuse to believe anything bad about the EU, even when it's staring you in the face. It's not just the right wing press, there are quotes from government officials from all over the EU, complaining about this procurement. This is a prime example of where the combined strength and unity of the EU should be helping all of the EU, small and large. But, atm, it seems to be sadly lacking.

As I have previously stated, Germany can only get their extra allocation after the EU allocation. If they were getting their extra first, then I'm sure that they would have more than the 4 million doses expected this month, including the relatively small 800k distributed to date.

[ramAnag]

That's your problem Swale, you refuse to believe anything bad about the EU, even when it's staring you in the face.

Unfortunately Ram I can’t help but feel that the exact opposite could be said about you...you refuse to believe anything good about the EU...or accept much in the way of criticism of a government you happen to support.
Such is the way of things in this country and across the world at the moment...hence the unprecedented level of division.

[swaledale]

That's your problem Swale, you refuse to believe anything bad about the EU, even when it's staring you in the face. It's not just the right wing press, there are quotes from government officials from all over the EU, complaining about this procurement. This is a prime example of where the combined strength and unity of the EU should be helping all of the EU, small and large. But, atm, it seems to be sadly lacking.

As I have previously stated, Germany can only get their extra allocation after the EU allocation. If they were getting their extra first, then I'm sure that they would have more than the 4 million doses expected this month, including the relatively small 800k distributed to date.

Its not the case I refuse to believe anything bad about the EU, there is plenty to criticise, but I don't jump on every piece of anti EU propaganda without checking the facts.

Nor am I surprised if various politicians in certain countries are moaning, it was always the case but I am wary as to which media are reporting these.

I'm not disagreeing with you that programme in EU countries hasn't got off to as good a start as it has in the UK, its clear it hasn't. However one does have to bear in mind that the UK is achieving its figures by deciding to give one dose instead of the two recommended by the vaccine manufacturers and scientists.

Whether thats a good idea or not I don't know, if it seems if more people get some immunity, that will slow the spread and deaths down so fine, but that approach hasn't been adopted by the EU.

As for the German allocation:

Hanno Kautz, the spokesperson for the German health ministry, confirmed at a press conference Friday that Germany "will receive around 60 million vaccine doses from BioNTech from EU contracts, and 30 million from bilateral contracts or agreements ... in total, 90 million this year. This is something we have done independently of the EU treaties. Germany secured 30 million doses of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine in September."

So Germany ran a separate procurement process to the Eu and you said that wasn't possible, so my original point that the Uk could have done this and had access to more vaccine stands.