O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[Ram59]

Amongst the many contradicting facts in the covid figures, are the figures for Germany.

Looking at their figures, they led the way in dealing with covid in the first outbreak with their much admired test and trace programme, which resulted in their very low figures. Roll on 7 months with a total of only 9,000 deaths and zero covid deaths on some days in October, you would think that with these low numbers, their experience of efficient test and trace and the new treatments available to treat patients, that they would have conquered covid. But, no, they have since had nearly 60,000 further deaths in under 4 months.

Does this mean that the Germans have suddenly gone British, I mean incompetent, or is this a demonstration of the vagrancies of covid, which are difficult to identify?

[Andy_Faber]

Amongst the many contradicting facts in the covid figures, are the figures for Germany.

Looking at their figures, they led the way in dealing with covid in the first outbreak with their much admired test and trace programme, which resulted in their very low figures. Roll on 7 months with a total of only 9,000 deaths and zero covid deaths on some days in October, you would think that with these low numbers, their experience of efficient test and trace and the new treatments available to treat patients, that they would have conquered covid. But, no, they have since had nearly 60,000 further deaths in under 4 months.

Does this mean that the Germans have suddenly gone British, I mean incompetent, or is this a demonstration of the vagrancies of covid, which are difficult to identify?

or a change in the basis of counting.

[MadAmster]

There is an age old saying that people "rise to the level of their own incompetence". It seems quite a few of the current cabinet have done exactly that.

The furlough scheme for both companies and their staff were out there quickly and have been improved along the way. They got that right.

They look like they backed the right horse in the vaccine stakes. Another success.

However, one might be forgiven for thinking most of them are below par, taking a lead from their inglorious leader. Sacked as a journalist for the fiction he wrote in what was supposed to be an informative column. Sacked as a Minister for lying to the then PM. Then he becomes Mayor of London and spaffs God knows how much ratepayers money up the wall. Millions on bendy buses that can't make most of the corners in London. Millions on water cannon to use on protestors when the use of water cannon is illegal in the UK. £7M on an environmentally friendly bridge over the Thames which would create safe passage across for the Thames for animals. The bridge was never built. It is my very honest opinion that Boris is inept at best and that most of his cabinet are worse or at least aren't prepared to shine and embarass their boss.

I realise that some of my fellow posters will disagree with my opinion and that's fine. Before TTR starts with his Starmer wouldn't have done any better, he may be right, he may be wrong. We don't KNOW. He got some things right and there are a few instances where Boris has, eventually, U-turned and done exactly what Starmer had said should happen. I haven't seen anything on Covid that KS has said that was later shown to be wrong but there will be things and I am very happy to learn what they were from my fellow posters.

[Trickytreesreds]

There is an age old saying that people "rise to the level of their own incompetence". It seems quite a few of the current cabinet have done exactly that.

The furlough scheme for both companies and their staff were out there quickly and have been improved along the way. They got that right.

They look like they backed the right horse in the vaccine stakes. Another success.

However, one might be forgiven for thinking most of them are below par, taking a lead from their inglorious leader. Sacked as a journalist for the fiction he wrote in what was supposed to be an informative column. Sacked as a Minister for lying to the then PM. Then he becomes Mayor of London and spaffs God knows how much ratepayers money up the wall. Millions on bendy buses that can't make most of the corners in London. Millions on water cannon to use on protestors when the use of water cannon is illegal in the UK. £7M on an environmentally friendly bridge over the Thames which would create safe passage across for the Thames for animals. The bridge was never built. It is my very honest opinion that Boris is inept at best and that most of his cabinet are worse or at least aren't prepared to shine and embarass their boss.

I realise that some of my fellow posters will disagree with my opinion and that's fine. Before TTR starts with his Starmer wouldn't have done any better, he may be right, he may be wrong. We don't KNOW. He got some things right and there are a few instances where Boris has, eventually, U-turned and done exactly what Starmer had said should happen. I haven't seen anything on Covid that KS has said that was later shown to be wrong but there will be things and I am very happy to learn what they were from my fellow posters.

Before TTR starts?

Hang on a minute. When I talk about Starmer, it is in reference to Starmers past history. No one knows if he would do a better job. However, his own past history is littered with bad calls, from his time as head of CPS and the massive failings on his watch. To his massive tantrum in parliament, where he suffered a memory wipe and took offence to Johnson bringing up a perfectly accurate quote.
Add on his bad judgment with Labour voters over Brexit and his admittance that Labour would have handled COVID the same as the Tories, only better? Then I fail to see how things would drastically improve under his leadership?
RA talks about a leader should be seen as a leader. I agree, Johnson certainly isn't that man. Neither is Starmer, as quite clearly the polls show.
If Starmer cannot look like shining star in the current situation, then he really must be inept.
You can fool some of the people some of the time and all that.

[ramAnag]

There is an age old saying that people "rise to the level of their own incompetence". It seems quite a few of the current cabinet have done exactly that.

The furlough scheme for both companies and their staff were out there quickly and have been improved along the way. They got that right.

They look like they backed the right horse in the vaccine stakes. Another success.

However, one might be forgiven for thinking most of them are below par, taking a lead from their inglorious leader. Sacked as a journalist for the fiction he wrote in what was supposed to be an informative column. Sacked as a Minister for lying to the then PM. Then he becomes Mayor of London and spaffs God knows how much ratepayers money up the wall. Millions on bendy buses that can't make most of the corners in London. Millions on water cannon to use on protestors when the use of water cannon is illegal in the UK. £7M on an environmentally friendly bridge over the Thames which would create safe passage across for the Thames for animals. The bridge was never built. It is my very honest opinion that Boris is inept at best and that most of his cabinet are worse or at least aren't prepared to shine and embarass their boss.

I realise that some of my fellow posters will disagree with my opinion and that's fine. Before TTR starts with his Starmer wouldn't have done any better, he may be right, he may be wrong. We don't KNOW. He got some things right and there are a few instances where Boris has, eventually, U-turned and done exactly what Starmer had said should happen. I haven't seen anything on Covid that KS has said that was later shown to be wrong but there will be things and I am very happy to learn what they were from my fellow posters.

Another post that I agree entirely with, and I suspect that many in the current Cabinet were awarded their positions on the basis of loyalty to Johnson and the Brexit cause rather than ability.

On the subject of Starmer. It is simply an inescapable fact that there are examples of Johnson having to ‘U turn’ to do exactly ‘what Starmer had said should happen’, which tells its own story imo.

It is also true that, with a Government majority of the size that Johnson has, this is not the time for Starmer to ‘shine’. Nor is the occasion of the greatest national/international crisis of all our lifetimes the time for party political points scoring, although Johnson’s expertise in the ‘theatrical’ head shaking and gurning department might lead some to think otherwise.

The bottom line, politically, is that the next General Election is likely to be at least three years away. In the meantime Starmer has to unite his own fractured Labour Party. However many Parliamentary debates he ‘wins’ they are unlikely to appear as ‘victories’ simply because of the size of the Government majority.

Ultimately Starmer’s job between now and 2024 is to make the Labour Party electable, something that his predecessor conspicuously failed to do, and provide a voice of conscience and common sense in a Parliament which, imo, seems increasingly devoid of either.

[Andy_Faber]

Millions on bendy buses that can't make most of the corners in London.

Ordered by Ken Livingston. Massive operational/safety issues. WITHDRAWN by Johnson and, having read the reports, a good decision. I don't doubt your overall comment but don't scattergun the issues that's what TTR is accused of

[swaledale]

Ordered by Ken Livingston. Massive operational/safety issues. WITHDRAWN by Johnson and, having read the reports, a good decision. I don't doubt your overall comment but don't scattergun the issues that's what TTR is accused of

Correct Johnsons expensive bus flop was the replacement for the RouteMaster, very expensive and ultimately not fit for purpose buses.

[ramAnag]

[QUOTE=Andy_Faber;39702702]Ordered by Ken Livingston. Massive operational/safety issues. WITHDRAWN by Johnson and, having read the reports, a good decision. [\QUOTE]

Didn’t he sell them to Malta...who are renowned for having much wider streets than London, and where they are now rusting away somewhere?

Seems world leaders have an endless capacity for stupidity.

[AdiSalisbury]

Ultimately Starmer’s job between now and 2024 is to make the Labour Party electable, something that his predecessor conspicuously failed to do...

I'd agree with that, and really hope he does. Regardless of which way the vote goes, people need a positive option.

[MadAmster]

Ordered by Ken Livingston. Massive operational/safety issues. WITHDRAWN by Johnson and, having read the reports, a good decision. I don't doubt your overall comment but don't scattergun the issues that's what TTR is accused of

I stand corrected on that point but the other points still stand.

The first articulated vehicles to be replaced were on 507 and 521, which were replaced by twelve-metre long single-deck buses in July and September 2009 respectively. Articulated buses were replaced by double-deckers on 38 in November 2009. Route 207 was the last route to operate articulated buses on 10 December 2011.

Withdrawn buses have found their way to other parts of the UK. Some went to Arriva Midlands in Leicester and Arriva North West in Liverpool. Go-Ahead Group transferred some to their Brighton & Hove, Go North East and Go South Coast divisions. Some were sold to CT Plus, Bristol and McGill's Bus Services, Glasgow. Arriva also exported 68 to Malta in 2011 for use by its Arriva in Malta subsidiary.

One articulated vehicle – MAL15 from the Red Arrow batch – has been preserved by the Bromley Bus Preservation Group.