O/T. The Government's handling of Covid

[ramAnag]

Much more disturbing to me, AF, is the post laughing at the German/French/Dutch doubts over the AstraZeneca vaccine.

I don’t know to what extent those doubts are well founded or if it is just more political posturing and I doubt any of us do, but the consequences for the UK are deeply worrying if there is any foundation to the rumours of lack of efficacy for the 65+ cohorts.

Anything but funny imo.

[Andy_Faber]

Much more disturbing to me, AF, is the post laughing at the German/French/Dutch doubts over the AstraZeneca vaccine.

I don’t know to what extent those doubts are well founded or if it is just more political posturing and I doubt any of us do, but the consequences for the UK are deeply worrying if there is any foundation to the rumours of lack of efficacy for the 65+ cohorts.

Anything but funny imo.

Yes at least that’s a scientific judgement but have you read any of the science? The U.K. stance is based on a less risk averse POV than the others but to me it’s far from racey. I wouldn’t go for deeply worrying as a description personally.

[Trickytreesreds]

Much more disturbing to me, AF, is the post laughing at the German/French/Dutch doubts over the AstraZeneca vaccine.

I don’t know to what extent those doubts are well founded or if it is just more political posturing and I doubt any of us do, but the consequences for the UK are deeply worrying if there is any foundation to the rumours of lack of efficacy for the 65+ cohorts.

Anything but funny imo.

Obviously you are on about my post, but to snotty to mention that.
I am laughing because these comments are unfounded, without proof.
Also, if it doesn't bloody work. Why have they made such a **** storm out of this to get hold of it?
So it is funny, just for the pure hypocrital behaviour of an organisation that still won't admit it ****ed up.
The French vaccine was the preferred choice, it didn't work. Get over it.

[swaledale]

You really spoil your posts with cheap **** like this, although I notice you’ve now removed the unfounded ‘white’ comment. Wouldn’t your mirth be better directed at the 80 year olds, and for that matter all valid age groups, who are declining the the vaccine full stop because they’ve read on the internet or been told by their ****age grandkids that it contains meat products, alcohol, or is less effective than garlic?

And it’s not ‘British’, it’s British, to be precise
‘COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca was co-invented by the University of Oxford and its spin-out company, Vaccitech.’ And massively invested in by HMG AND unlike the rest, available to the world at cost. I’m proud of that, I suggest you get with the program - your ‘in-denial’ attitude to anything positive about Britain baffles me

Oh here we go again, old white male bristling because they fail to understand the concept of racism, thought you'd have worked out how foolish that makes you look, though I guess your in good company with others on here.

I see your rather narrow nationalistic attitude is coming to the surface, never did trust people who displayed such simplistic tendencies, they tend to be narrow minded individuals easily able to be persuaded by cheap so called patriotic tropes, that in reality are based on some unjustified sense of superiority.

I find the concept of dumb old people locked in the past, under the illusion that Britain is somehow superior to "any other country" in the world as utterly ridiculous and the only possible sane response is to laugh at these people. I mean how stupid to delay having something thats possibly going to save your life, just because it isn't British. If your that dumb, well you won't be missed frankly.

I was referring to one particular instance, which I thought hilarious, there are others but you know I find old white ****s rather funny!

Especially old white ****s that think that phrase is in any way racist!

As for your suggestion to "get with the programme", you can be a blind nationalist, but please don't insult me with your pathetic jibes.

As for AstraZenic a being "British" yeah well I suggest you actually look into the facts, its a collaboration involving many nationalities, but I guess those facts don't suit your narrow perspective on such matters. Which is why your puzzled when I don't swallow the nationalistic tripe thats pumped out for the benefit of the ignorant proles.

[swaledale]

Much more disturbing to me, AF, is the post laughing at the German/French/Dutch doubts over the AstraZeneca vaccine.

I don’t know to what extent those doubts are well founded or if it is just more political posturing and I doubt any of us do, but the consequences for the UK are deeply worrying if there is any foundation to the rumours of lack of efficacy for the 65+ cohorts.

Anything but funny imo.

Why? Given that the Pfizer vaccine is the one being administered in greater numbers at the moment. In terms of the Astrazenica effectiveness in 0ver 65's, this is mainly down to lack of data in that age group.

But it is very unlikely that the vaccine effectiveness is going to suddenly change based on age profile, if its effective up to age 65, which most of the curent data shows it is, then what would change post that age?

Mind you it would be poetic justice if those over 65 who waited for the "British" vaccine suddenly found it wasn't effective for their age group!

The issue for some European regulators is that they think not enough of the AZ trial participants aged over 65 caught the virus to make conclusions on the vaccine's effectiveness. This is because only two of the 660 people in that age group were infected.

Other companies, like Pfizer, included more older people earlier on in their trials, so have more data available.

MHRA advice says that the number of older people contracting the virus in the AZ trial was "too few to draw conclusions on efficacy".

So, the French, German and other agencies are focusing on this fact.

"Current evidence does not suggest any lack of protection against Covid-19 in people aged 65 or over who receive the Covid-19 vaccine AstraZeneca," the UK Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) chief executive, Dr June Raine, said in a statement.

"The data we have show that the vaccine produces a strong immune response in the over-65s, and that it is safe."

[ramAnag]

Obviously you are on about my post, but to snotty to mention that.
I am laughing because these comments are unfounded, without proof.
Also, if it doesn't bloody work. Why have they made such a **** storm out of this to get hold of it?
So it is funny, just for the pure hypocrital behaviour of an organisation that still won't admit it ****ed up.
The French vaccine was the preferred choice, it didn't work. Get over it.

I’ll temporarily break my rule, TTR.

I’m not ‘too snotty’ at all...it’s just that experience suggests that exchanges between us always degenerate into personal abuse and you then posting a collection of ‘Right’ thinking rubbish. I’m not interested in either so I just don’t, usually, respond.

My point is that the doubts expressed regarding the Oxford (AZ) vaccine shouldn’t be a source of amusement. As you know I trust very little of what our current Government says and I don’t make much more of an exception for those who dominate the EU...they’re all politicians with their own agendas imo.

At the moment there seems to be a great deal of disagreement about the efficacy of vaccines in relation to a) the age group they are being delivered to, b) the time allowed between doses and c) whether different vaccines can or cannot be used in conjunction with each other.

I don’t know the answer to these questions, but I do understand, politically, why both UK and European politicians should be adopting the stances they are. That, imo, should be a source of concern, not amusement.

P.S. Swale, just as a poi...I know five people who have been vaccinated to date...all have so far received the Oxford vaccine...not out of any sort of choice, but because that’s what was on offer. I’d hope you know me well enough to understand that my friendship group wouldn’t include anyone stupid enough to insist on the ‘home grown English’ version.

[Andy_Faber]

Oh here we go again, old white male bristling because they fail to understand the concept of racism, thought you'd have worked out how foolish that makes you look, though I guess your in good company with others on here.

I see your rather narrow nationalistic attitude is coming to the surface, never did trust people who displayed such simplistic tendencies, they tend to be narrow minded individuals easily able to be persuaded by cheap so called patriotic tropes, that in reality are based on some unjustified sense of superiority.

I find the concept of dumb old people locked in the past, under the illusion that Britain is somehow superior to "any other country" in the world as utterly ridiculous and the only possible sane response is to laugh at these people. I mean how stupid to delay having something thats possibly going to save your life, just because it isn't British. If your that dumb, well you won't be missed frankly.

I was referring to one particular instance, which I thought hilarious, there are others but you know I find old white ****s rather funny!

Especially old white ****s that think that phrase is in any way racist!

As for your suggestion to "get with the programme", you can be a blind nationalist, but please don't insult me with your pathetic jibes.

As for AstraZenic a being "British" yeah well I suggest you actually look into the facts, its a collaboration involving many nationalities, but I guess those facts don't suit your narrow perspective on such matters. Which is why your puzzled when I don't swallow the nationalistic tripe thats pumped out for the benefit of the ignorant proles.

Sorry, I appear to have gotten under your skin again.

[Ram59]

Oh god I do despair sometimes, yes the AstraZeneca vaccine is produced in the UK, that actually doesn't make it any more a British vaccine than the fact that Pfizer is currently being produced in Belgium makes it a Belgian vaccine! Or the vaccine that was created by a French firm in Brittany which is going to be made in Scotland is a Scottish vaccine. I'm sure you know that AstraZenica is a British/Swedish multi national, so you could call it an Anglo Swedish vaccine I suppose?

So yes I am still pissing myself laughing at those stupid over 80's wanting to wait for the "British" vaccine, I'm sure they apply the same logic in other health issues, no they can't do because if they did they wouldn't have reached 80!

You clearly didn't read my answer read my answer - though not sure what your getting at - the fact that Germany ordered 30 million vaccine does last September is a matter of fact! Now as you have a problem with simple concepts - one, as the order was last September, it means its being produced now, as its being produced now, it wouldn't need to be stored would it? Because it hasn't been delivered simples.

Secondly I already agreed that even with the vaccine supplies they already have Germany had been using a system whereby people had to book slots online for the vaccine, which was limited to 15,000 a day and seemed to be a very odd way to do things. In short the Germans have ****ed up their vaccination programme and I said that to!

So much so that there is a lot of flak being directed internally at the moment within Germany.

I also agreed that the EU had ****ed up royally with their political posturing over vaccine exports and the threat to override the protocol on the Irish Border, or at least some hothead in the Commission had, because the relevant governments hadn't been informed.

You originally brought up that the Germans had bought the extra doses, to defend your argument that if the UK had been part of the EU procurement programme, it wouldn't have stopped the UK getting their own supplies at the same time. If that was the case then Germany would now have their extra supplies and they haven't. I've said several times that Germany ordered their supply to come after the EU order has been completed. My point about them being stored is a slightly sarcastic comment about you insisting that the Germans have got current extra supplies.

As for the Oxford vaccine not being British, words fail me. But then again, I suppose that you know the nationality of every shareholder of Astra and every employee and student at Oxford university working on the project. By your rationale, nothing could ever be attributed to one country, those driving BMWs and think that they're driving a German car, think again.

I hear that the BBC are looking for left wing comedians, you should apply, because you are highly entertaining to many of us on here.

[AdiSalisbury]

Well, I got my letter this morning saying I can book my vaccine now, or await a call from the GP surgery very soon. Thank you HMG for potentially saving my life.

[MadAmster]

Astra Zeneca has only very recently been approved by the EMA. Once it was, the EU asked for the requisite number of vaccines they had ordered, paid for and, quite rightly, expected to be delivered. I won't speak fo the other nations but I am aware that the Dutch were NOT looking to screw the Irish border question over. That was some high ranking EU eejit. He/she seems to have forgotten their "place".
Yesterday, the Dutch government decided, based on scientific and medical advice, that the AZ vaccine would not be offered to anybody over the age of 64. Yes, a decision based on scientific and medical advice.......

The Janssen vaccine form Johnson and Johnson. Exepcted to get EMA approval as early as next week. Suitable for all ages. Can be kept at standard fridge temperatures so no storage issues. Just one dose not two required. It appears to have a low success rate at first glance. 66%. The standard is that a vaccine is deemed effective at over 50%. There are other stats which are greatly positive for the Janssen vaccine. One is that, over all age groups it is 85% effective in preventing serious symptoms. It also has 100% effectiveness in that nobody in the trials who had the vaccine and not the placebo was hospitalised and there hasn't been a single death either among those having the vaccine. Now, those are stats I like.