Illegals and Failed Asylum Seekers

[stripes39]

And also, you're talking about 'illegal'. Do you think people who risk their lives in dangerous dinghies on choppy waters in November care about if they do something that is legal or not? Politicians, such as Johnson and Patel, see this issue as a vote winner for them. And here we are.

They do risk their lives in many cases that is true. I also agree that the right sort of immigration has bought big benefits to this country.

Why though do the vast majority who take these dinghies travel from different continents crossing perfectly safe and respectable countries where they can also claim asylum such as Austria, Germany, France and Italy (to name a few) only to put their lives at such risk on a very dangerous stretch of water?

There lies a big part of the problem for many.

[WBA123]

They do risk their lives in many cases that is true. I also agree that the right sort of immigration has bought big benefits to this country.

Why though do the vast majority who take these dinghies travel from different continents crossing perfectly safe and respectable countries where they can also claim asylum such as Austria, Germany, France and Italy (to name a few) only to put their lives at such risk on a very dangerous stretch of water?

There lies a big part of the problem for many.

There lies one of the issues, the vast majority do claim asylum in these countries. We take a small minority compared with what Europe do. More misleading news from our unethical and deceitful press.

The reasons why the minority come here....they can probably have closer ties/roots with this country such as they speak the language, have contacts here maybe even a place to stay, and because of this - have more opportunity here. Its nothing to do with benefits, our benefits system isn't much different from France, Spain or Germany's. If you've gone to all the trouble of making it to Calais from the Middle East or Africa, it probably seems like a small step further to get to the UK and give yourself a platform for a better life.

[mickd1961]

What gets me is when the illegal immigration gets a mention (or the story is amplified) when or during a time the gov is facing bad press.. ahem the 2nd jobs row. Yes it’s been going on but is it also used to divert attention away? I’m surprised there isn’t a separate thread on this and yes Labour are also not innocent on this and also the sleaze row vote. Typical.

I like the suggestion you’ve made mick regarding the illegal immigration, but i’d go further in isolating them off to a remote island and get the message out that you cannot enter illegally.

That said, i’m not against immigration but we do always see images of men, men only. I’m sure amongst these are some that are innocent. I’d rather see a ‘family’ come over/apply than individual men. As 123 pointed out, they can benefit the economy. There is a lot we don’t know and why isn’t there a pursuit in finding the people smugglers/traffickers? Like ban sales of dinghies in france? Surely a licence would be needed?

Back to the sleaze. It’s about time we had a new law in place ‘The National Interest Act’ which criminalises sleaze and corruption and one that can override certain rules that don’t have the national interest at heart. This is a vast area I know and i’ve only been thinking this the other day on how it could be used to nationalise certain utilities that don’t play ball. I probably have not summed my idea up well, but any new potential government is missing this opportunity to get into power.

Excellent idea about isolating them on an island Regis.

Guernsey.

[kettering_baggie]

A couple of things that baffle me about immigration.

The first is similar to how Kettering and many others say things like 'we should feed/house our own first' or 'NHS/education is at breaking point'. And of course immigrants get the blame for this. Its not a binary choice between having a welfare system or health/education by choosing not to take in immigrants. In fact there is a lot of evidence that immigrants prop up these places, especially our healthcare. This is the responsibility of the Government who are happy for you to blame immigrants for their failings.

The second is the perception that immigrants typically arrive by the boatload. 677,000 people moved to the UK in 2019 (of course, the majority did so on correct visa's), 8,000 people came by boat in 2020. The vast majority of immigrants that are here don't arrive by boat, but overstay their visa's. The one's who do arrive by boat are the super desperate.

And I don't know the answers either by the way, its just we look at immigrants in a terrible light when 99% of them come here to work and for a better life. Brexit has (hopefully) taught us that we need immigrants. The people who are really screwing the country over are the politicians giving themselves fat, juicy public taxpayer contracts - not the poor bloke risking his life on a dinghy in the channel. The biggest scroungers are Johnson, Gove, Jenrick, Hancock and the like..

123, please read my post again; I did not blame asylum seekers for the various shortfalls in our society and I have als stated that were we to be in their shoes, we too may be seeking a better life somewhere else. I have also pointed out, possibly in another thread, that you can’t just turn the boats around and send them back as that would contravene the UN convention regarding those seeking asylum. The point that I was trying to make was that unlimited immigration is ultimately unsustainable, given the potential numbers that could come from Africa and other war-torn and climate affected countries. I don’t know what the answer is but it cannot be that living conditions in the UK, or Europe for that matter, are adversely affected because our infrastructure is being overwhelmed. There would come a point, I suspect, that the far right would exploit the situation for their own ends and the we would be faced with real problems. I genuinely feel for those, especially with young children, just trying to find themselves a decent life. Taking real steps to mitigate climate change and providing assistance for some parts of the World to build their own infrastructure would surely be the way forward, although what you do about some of the violent dictators around the World that care not one jot for anyone but themselves, I do not know. Look how migrants are being treated by Belarus, just pawns in a ruthless dictator’s game, disgraceful. The UK alone cannot solve the problems of the World, sadly.

[mickd1961]

123, please read my post again; I did not blame asylum seekers for the various shortfalls in our society and I have als stated that were we to be in their shoes, we too may be seeking a better life somewhere else. I have also pointed out, possibly in another thread, that you can’t just turn the boats around and send them back as that would contravene the UN convention regarding those seeking asylum. The point that I was trying to make was that unlimited immigration is ultimately unsustainable, given the potential numbers that could come from Africa and other war-torn and climate affected countries. I don’t know what the answer is but it cannot be that living conditions in the UK, or Europe for that matter, are adversely affected because our infrastructure is being overwhelmed. There would come a point, I suspect, that the far right would exploit the situation for their own ends and the we would be faced with real problems. I genuinely feel for those, especially with young children, just trying to find themselves a decent life. Taking real steps to mitigate climate change and providing assistance for some parts of the World to build their own infrastructure would surely be the way forward, although what you do about some of the violent dictators around the World that care not one jot for anyone but themselves, I do not know. Look how migrants are being treated by Belarus, just pawns in a ruthless dictator’s game, disgraceful. The UK alone cannot solve the problems of the World, sadly.

A shocking piece of prose from an ex Halesowen Grammar school boy!

Any chance of some paragraphs Kets?

[baggieal]

What you don't appear to understand 123 is the word illegal. If in all other areas of society we ignored the laws, we'd be in a right mess! You state that most of those who remain do so because their visas have expired and haven't come on dingys. So that's OK then, and overstaying your visa is not illegal? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reasoning.

Try overstaying your visa in the USA or Australia but hey - they are not soft like this country and get rid!

[baggieal]

Excellent idea about isolating them on an island Regis.

Guernsey.

They would at least be fed and milked!

[kettering_baggie]

A shocking piece of prose from an ex Halesowen Grammar school boy!

Any chance of some paragraphs Kets?

Public school and Halesowen Grammar, I’ll have you know! Paragraphs, I wouldn’t want to confuse any that didn’t enjoy the privileged education wot I did!

[stripes39]

123, please read my post again; I did not blame asylum seekers for the various shortfalls in our society and I have als stated that were we to be in their shoes, we too may be seeking a better life somewhere else. I have also pointed out, possibly in another thread, that you can’t just turn the boats around and send them back as that would contravene the UN convention regarding those seeking asylum. The point that I was trying to make was that unlimited immigration is ultimately unsustainable, given the potential numbers that could come from Africa and other war-torn and climate affected countries. I don’t know what the answer is but it cannot be that living conditions in the UK, or Europe for that matter, are adversely affected because our infrastructure is being overwhelmed. There would come a point, I suspect, that the far right would exploit the situation for their own ends and the we would be faced with real problems. I genuinely feel for those, especially with young children, just trying to find themselves a decent life. Taking real steps to mitigate climate change and providing assistance for some parts of the World to build their own infrastructure would surely be the way forward, although what you do about some of the violent dictators around the World that care not one jot for anyone but themselves, I do not know. Look how migrants are being treated by Belarus, just pawns in a ruthless dictator’s game, disgraceful. The UK alone cannot solve the problems of the World, sadly.

Good post. Pouring billions in to Africa as has happened over the years is not the answer. The state of the continent proves it. BLM conveniently ignore the fact that much of Africa's issues have been bought about by years of corrupt dictatorships using their countries wealth as a personal bank account.

Corruption at so many levels at the expense of the ordinary man or woman is rife. A company I worked for got involved in a scheme to build schools and hospitals in Uganda. The deal was you got your flight 50% paid for, got paid by the company to take a week off to live in a village and provide free labour building these structures. Those that did go got hit with a $300 dollar 'tax' on arrival that they'd not been told about or they'd get put on the next flight out at their own cost. Turns out every person of multiple nationalities was paying this 'tax' that it transpired was going to a local committee made up of the police chief, magistrate and local government ministers.

Until it starts to sort its own problems out mass movement of people will continue which as you say is unsustainable.

[Leicesterbaggie]

Good post. Pouring billions in to Africa as has happened over the years is not the answer. The state of the continent proves it. BLM conveniently ignore the fact that much of Africa's issues have been bought about by years of corrupt dictatorships using their countries wealth as a personal bank account.

Corruption at so many levels at the expense of the ordinary man or woman is rife. A company I worked for got involved in a scheme to build schools and hospitals in Uganda. The deal was you got your flight 50% paid for, got paid by the company to take a week off to live in a village and provide free labour building these structures. Those that did go got hit with a $300 dollar 'tax' on arrival that they'd not been told about or they'd get put on the next flight out at their own cost. Turns out every person of multiple nationalities was paying this 'tax' that it transpired was going to a local committee made up of the police chief, magistrate and local government ministers.

Until it starts to sort its own problems out mass movement of people will continue which as you say is unsustainable.

You are quite right stripes. Used to give to various charities for aid in Africa. Stopped doing so as the money that I was giving wasn't going where intended but into the pockets of corrupt officials. This is endemic in many African countries and, as you say, until this is sorted out the situation is never going to improve.