Mark Ogren

[TerryTheTerror]

Terence my memory isna the best but i do clearly remember you on probably more than one occasion being very puzzled over Ogren's claim he was here to turn a profit.

Totally and, for me anyway, the current scenario was always going to happen at some point. Fans don't give a **** about profits, just the first team on the park. As soon as the latter has a problem this was always going to explode.

[ianharab]

After yesterdays AGM more convinced than ever we will be back in the Championship next season , for Ogren to claim we would come straight back up is unbelievable as relegation would see any player worth any sort of money sold and would also lead to a big drop in season ticket sales . It’s now clear that while the current management team is in place we are ****ed

[DUFCstokie]

Not read or posted on here for years. Good to see that you’re still an utter phuckin pap!!

Here here.

[the_arab]

MO doesn't care about Dundee United, that much is now 100% clear. His need to make a profit and gain a return was always going to conflict with the fans at some point.

That's the same for most clubs. Only the super-rich who buy clubs as their plaything or owners who are also fans gives a damn.

I have no issue with the club being run as a business as generally speaking they should be more sustainable than the alternatives and the better they perform the better return on investment. Where I have an issue though is when they make a **** of it like now and clearly want out.

Having worked with VC's and other rich businessmen mostly from the US one thing I have learned is they are a different bread culturally and will never ever tell the truth re their motives.

The US is an entirely different market, there are barely any employment rights out there, they think nothing of screwing people over and out of their livelihood and even people that lose jobs out there tend to care less than people over here, it's engrained in their culture, its just one of those things. I have no doubt this means the Ogrens naturally dont give a damn about the people they employ or the people they may screw over, its all about $ to them as its all they understand.

I mean look at the way they move sports franchises around out there to different parts of the country, you couldn't do that in the UK without bedlam.

[Chick A Saw]

Emotions are running high just now and think sometimes it's good to take a step back and look at things properly

Fact is he took over with us in a total mess with a worrying future, we had 4 years of progression on and off the park, we've had a crap season, so one poor year in 5, you don't just rip it and forget the rest and need change of owner and everything else, Ogren is a good guy and seems genuine, hopefully we stay up and can regroup / rebuild to have a better 6th year and 4 year back in top flight

We as a club are not immune and never will be of a poor season in the top flight, given the nature of Scottish football with the lopsided nature, we do need stability both in ownership and manager, if it isn't Fox we need to find one in the summer and stop the short term thinking that fans have

Things have been poor but not irretrievable, on Saturdays there is no doubt we were the better side in terms of quality on the ball, passing, creating etc despite missing key players but a dud goalie ruined it, we have enough to stay up, main thing is getting behind the side, survive and rebuild, under Ogren, maybe with TA less visible (or replaced but not sure that' will happen) though as a compromise as he isn't liked and has had critics abs cynicism from the beginning regardless of what had been done, let's been honest, that's what I've seen, the season is not over, plenty games left and I for one like Fox attitude of standing up and meeting it head on

He got us scoring goals, competing, right back into things, he sorted the defence until we got to mid Jan and the recent run, mix of playing old firm, injuries, var, pen misses and goalie howlers won't help any manager, his in game management needs to improve but we have players to come back and we will have another spell of form and the others will crash again so we will see where we end up

I am wondering if you wrote something like that around this time in the doon season?

I know you think that is written in a way to tell us all to be positive, but some bits in there accurately describe events from that doon season.

[TerryTheTerror]

That's the same for most clubs. Only the super-rich who buy clubs as their plaything or owners who are also fans gives a damn.

I have no issue with the club being run as a business as generally speaking they should be more sustainable than the alternatives and the better they perform the better return on investment. Where I have an issue though is when they make a **** of it like now and clearly want out.

Having worked with VC's and other rich businessmen mostly from the US one thing I have learned is they are a different bread culturally and will never ever tell the truth re their motives.

The US is an entirely different market, there are barely any employment rights out there, they think nothing of screwing people over and out of their livelihood and even people that lose jobs out there tend to care less than people over here, it's engrained in their culture, its just one of those things. I have no doubt this means the Ogrens naturally dont give a damn about the people they employ or the people they may screw over, its all about $ to them as its all they understand.

I mean look at the way they move sports franchises around out there to different parts of the country, you couldn't do that in the UK without bedlam.

Good insight. I think, for MO, it doesn't matter what league we are in as long as there is money to be made from bringing young players on et cetera. The number of players we have sold in the last couple of years is amazing really, especially young lads.

[Yeats 62]

Bringing young players through has always been the United way. But............in the aldin days we would get them early, coach them up, get a couple of seasons out of them, play them in the big league which was putting them in the shop windee. Then make good money by selling them on.

These days, all we are getting money for (in some cases) is potential. This means any young player 16 - 19ish gets a few subbie appearances, or a few starts, to alert other teams, they put in an offer, which these days we always seem to accept. So all the years we invested in them disappear with the sale.

We are defo NOT bringing young players through these days to help our first team in any way whatsoever.

And as has been mentioned, even if we go down, we will still have the Academy doing the same things, which will end up in young players still being sold before we get any reasonable playing time out of them......

[RAM1971]

[QUOTE=Yeats 62;40224234]Bringing young players through has always been the United way. But............in the aldin days we would get them early, coach them up, get a couple of seasons out of them, play them in the big league which was putting them in the shop windee. Then make good money by selling them on.

These days, all we are getting money for (in some cases) is potential. This means any young player 16 - 19ish gets a few subbie appearances, or a few starts, to alert other teams, they put in an offer, which these days we always seem to accept. So all the years we invested in them disappear with the sale.

We are defo NOT bringing young players through these days to help our first team in any way whatsoever.

And as has been mentioned, even if we go down, we will still have the Academy doing the same things, which will end up in young players still being sold before we get any reasonable playing time out of them......[/QUOTE


I agree. We are not bringing through young talent to improve our team, but rather to sell them on to other teams for their improvement.

It is just possible that the current situation is meeting MO's stated 'twin' objectives when he took over the club. These being, to make some money and to have a bit of fun while doing so. It just might be that he is making a little money and if we put a twist on the Fun bit, we are certainly becoming 'the Fun every bit as much as those up the road!

[TerryTheTerror]

Well we did give a lot of minutes to young players last season. On top of that Jamie Robson played a lot of games for us for instance.

I'd imagine TA sold MO on owning a club like United by the possibility of creating a youth system that produces players to be sold, whatever age, for profit. That's certainly how it's working at the moment (Lewis Nielson aside).

[Yeats 62]

Well we did give a lot of minutes to young players last season. On top of that Jamie Robson played a lot of games for us for instance.

I'd imagine TA sold MO on owning a club like United by the possibility of creating a youth system that produces players to be sold, whatever age, for profit. That's certainly how it's working at the moment (Lewis Nielson aside).

Point taken Terence ... but........... Jamie's amount of games just proves (to me) that we accepted a player as a regular, that was nowhere near the level we required. Is he doing well and playing every game for his club these days?

You are correct about the minutes given/gave to the young players last year. How many are playing for us now, (actually in the team I mean)?