Companies taking the p I s s out of staff!

[mickd1961]

Any experts on employment law on here.

My son is having trouble with his employer, he does mainly driving for them.

Yesterday he was on the road at 4.30am and did almost 16 hours, not finishing until well after 8.00pm last night.

They told him he needed to be setting out this morning at 3.30am as he had to be at some far flung destination and another long, long day of driving work.

This is a regular occurrence, a couple of weeks ago he fell asleep on the M25 and hit the central reservation in the early hours.

Last night he reversed into another vehicle when he arrived back at work, he’s literally out on his feet with tiredness.

Yesterday evening after his mum and me registered our real concerns for his health and his safety and the safety of other people and so he contacted his bosses and told them he didn’t feel he could do this latest job at that time in the morning.

He received no reply.

He got up at 3.00am to go into work and felt dizzy and sick, similar symptoms to jet lag.

He texted bosses again telling them he felt sick and got no reply.

He went in this morning at the businesses normal starting hours and got a b o l l o c k I n g and a verbal warning.

He told his boss that he was concerned because he was being asked to break the law and his boss sarcastically said to him….”Oh, so you’re an expert on employment law then are you?

He feels like it’s only a matter of time until they find excuses to sack him, he’s been given a series of c r a p tasks to do today.

It surely can’t be legal to expect someone to drive for almost 16 hours in a day and then return to work to drive again just 7 hours later?

He’s driving white cabs and large milk floats not HGV stuff but I still think this is illegal?

I despair at the way companies treat employees these days.

Any advice appreciated?

[SwedishBaggie]

Any experts on employment law on here.

My son is having trouble with his employer, he does mainly driving for them.

Yesterday he was on the road at 4.30am and did almost 16 hours, not finishing until well after 8.00pm last night.

They told him he needed to be setting out this morning at 3.30am as he had to be at some far flung destination and another long, long day of driving work.

This is a regular occurrence, a couple of weeks ago he fell asleep on the M25 and hit the central reservation in the early hours.

Last night he reversed into another vehicle when he arrived back at work, he’s literally out on his feet with tiredness.

Yesterday evening after his mum and me registered our real concerns for his health and his safety and the safety of other people and so he contacted his bosses and told them he didn’t feel he could do this latest job at that time in the morning.

He received no reply.

He got up at 3.00am to go into work and felt dizzy and sick, similar symptoms to jet lag.

He texted bosses again telling them he felt sick and got no reply.

He went in this morning at the businesses normal starting hours and got a b o l l o c k I n g and a verbal warning.

He told his boss that he was concerned because he was being asked to break the law and his boss sarcastically said to him….”Oh, so you’re an expert on employment law then are you?

He feels like it’s only a matter of time until they find excuses to sack him, he’s been given a series of c r a p tasks to do today.

It surely can’t be legal to expect someone to drive for almost 16 hours in a day and then return to work to drive again just 7 hours later?

He’s driving white cabs and large milk floats not HGV stuff but I still think this is illegal?

I despair at the way companies treat employees these days.

Any advice appreciated?

Yes, I am, unfortunately though on Swedish employment and labour law. There is EU-legislation about this as well, but, of course not applicable with you.

But, there surely must be some ”Act on working hours” or similar, that would state this illegal!?

If he is a member of a union, I’d contact them, they should have experts on the matter (over here they do anyway).

BaggieBoyGeoff, who posted on here before, worked as a lawyer and, I believe he specialised in employment law.

Best of luck.

[soulman101]

Any experts on employment law on here.

My son is having trouble with his employer, he does mainly driving for them.

Yesterday he was on the road at 4.30am and did almost 16 hours, not finishing until well after 8.00pm last night.

They told him he needed to be setting out this morning at 3.30am as he had to be at some far flung destination and another long, long day of driving work.

This is a regular occurrence, a couple of weeks ago he fell asleep on the M25 and hit the central reservation in the early hours.

Last night he reversed into another vehicle when he arrived back at work, he’s literally out on his feet with tiredness.

Yesterday evening after his mum and me registered our real concerns for his health and his safety and the safety of other people and so he contacted his bosses and told them he didn’t feel he could do this latest job at that time in the morning.

He received no reply.

He got up at 3.00am to go into work and felt dizzy and sick, similar symptoms to jet lag.

He texted bosses again telling them he felt sick and got no reply.

He went in this morning at the businesses normal starting hours and got a b o l l o c k I n g and a verbal warning.

He told his boss that he was concerned because he was being asked to break the law and his boss sarcastically said to him….”Oh, so you’re an expert on employment law then are you?

He feels like it’s only a matter of time until they find excuses to sack him, he’s been given a series of c r a p tasks to do today.

It surely can’t be legal to expect someone to drive for almost 16 hours in a day and then return to work to drive again just 7 hours later?

He’s driving white cabs and large milk floats not HGV stuff but I still think this is illegal?

I despair at the way companies treat employees these days.

Any advice appreciated?

If he drives on a normal licence for under 3.5t he can only drive for 10 hours per day and a max of 48 hr week.
https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/gb-domestic-rules

[baggieal]

Any experts on employment law on here.

My son is having trouble with his employer, he does mainly driving for them.

Yesterday he was on the road at 4.30am and did almost 16 hours, not finishing until well after 8.00pm last night.

They told him he needed to be setting out this morning at 3.30am as he had to be at some far flung destination and another long, long day of driving work.

This is a regular occurrence, a couple of weeks ago he fell asleep on the M25 and hit the central reservation in the early hours.

Last night he reversed into another vehicle when he arrived back at work, he’s literally out on his feet with tiredness.

Yesterday evening after his mum and me registered our real concerns for his health and his safety and the safety of other people and so he contacted his bosses and told them he didn’t feel he could do this latest job at that time in the morning.

He received no reply.

He got up at 3.00am to go into work and felt dizzy and sick, similar symptoms to jet lag.

He texted bosses again telling them he felt sick and got no reply.

He went in this morning at the businesses normal starting hours and got a b o l l o c k I n g and a verbal warning.

He told his boss that he was concerned because he was being asked to break the law and his boss sarcastically said to him….”Oh, so you’re an expert on employment law then are you?

He feels like it’s only a matter of time until they find excuses to sack him, he’s been given a series of c r a p tasks to do today.

It surely can’t be legal to expect someone to drive for almost 16 hours in a day and then return to work to drive again just 7 hours later?

He’s driving white cabs and large milk floats not HGV stuff but I still think this is illegal?

I despair at the way companies treat employees these days.

Any advice appreciated?

Feel for him Mick and his and everybody’s safety as can’t be legal. That said if the vehicle does not need a special license that’s most likely their get out.

Sadly with most companies when someone complains especially about their working conditions - the company will then want them out. Awful but true!

[Omegstrat6]

Soulman has already posted the gov website you need to check out but you would need to know exact details about the weight of the vehicles and the nature of his job first in order to get an accurate answers because there are so many "exemptions".

If he has not opted out from the working time directive then he can only work 48 hours a week but -depending upon any exceptions being claimed about the nature of the work-he may be asked to exceed this on some weeks provided the 48 is averaged over 17 weeks. Similarly, he should ordinarily get an 11 hour break between shifts but a great many companies get around this based on various exemptions (e.g. Shift work) though "compensatory" break times must be made on other days so that he gets a total of 90 hours minimum per week.

As a union rep I see an on-going reduction in workers rights driven by years of a Conservative government under the disingenuous claims that de-regulation will stimulate growth. What they really mean is a change in the laws to allow them to further exploit staff for the profits of business owners and shareholders. Many workers rights were also enshrined in EU law which was another reason for some to push for Brexit.

Get as many details as you can from your son and from govt websites and ACAS regarding the regulations first and then seek further advice from Citizens Advice. Sounds like the company he works for are abusing their position but, as I say, there are plenty of exemptions. If they are breaking the law then they will be in the brown stuff-especially if it involves breaches of HASAW regs.

[mickd1961]

Feel for him Mick and his and everybody’s safety as can’t be legal. That said if the vehicle does not need a special license that’s most likely their get out.

Sadly with most companies when someone complains especially about their working conditions - the company will then want them out. Awful but true!

You’re not supposed to drive any vehicle under 3.5 tons for more than 10 hours a day including breaks I believe?

To make someone work for 15 hours and 47 minutes and then expect them back in at 3.00am in a morning after only being back at home for less than 7 hours is more than a p I s s take, it’s dangerous.

The pressure on staff to suck it up and shut up is unacceptable.

My lad feels like the writing is on the wall for him now and that his employer will find a way of getting rid of him in the near future.

These power trips by company owners really f u c k me off, f kin control freaks and power crazy and it’s the poor b a s t a r d working his nuts off to provide for his family who suffers or the people he hurts in an accident.

I gather that my son himself can get points on his licence and worse if he’s caught doing these hours.

So you can’t win, you get sacked for not breaking the law or in trouble with the law because you’re scared about your job!?

[Omegstrat6]

Just re-read your post and you say he is driving almost 16 hours a day? Whilst he is probably exempt from the 11 hours "duty time" (and the working day can be up to 16 hours), my understanding is that he should not exceed an actual driving time of 10 hours a day. Under the Working Time Regulations 1998 employees should also get "adequate rest" breaks to combat fatigue as part of health and safety protection.

[baggieal]

You’re not supposed to drive any vehicle under 3.5 tons for more than 10 hours a day including breaks I believe?

To make someone work for 15 hours and 47 minutes and then expect them back in at 3.00am in a morning after only being back at home for less than 7 hours is more than a p I s s take, it’s dangerous.

The pressure on staff to suck it up and shut up is unacceptable.

My lad feels like the writing is on the wall for him now and that his employer will find a way of getting rid of him in the near future.

These power trips by company owners really f u c k me off, f kin control freaks and power crazy and it’s the poor b a s t a r d working his nuts off to provide for his family who suffers or the people he hurts in an accident.

I gather that my son himself can get points on his licence and worse if he’s caught doing these hours.

So you can’t win, you get sacked for not breaking the law or in trouble with the law because you’re scared about your job!?

Totally agree with you Mick and feel for your son. From experience with my own son and seeing other cases - once you complain it’s the writing on the wall. So wrong and disgusting!

I know from you that your son has been doing so well so I feel for him. Might be best to tell him to toe the line for a while and start looking at other jobs/opportunities. As you will know - it’s always easier to get another job whilst your in a job.

[Omegstrat6]

You’re not supposed to drive any vehicle under 3.5 tons for more than 10 hours a day including breaks I believe?

To make someone work for 15 hours and 47 minutes and then expect them back in at 3.00am in a morning after only being back at home for less than 7 hours is more than a p I s s take, it’s dangerous.

The pressure on staff to suck it up and shut up is unacceptable.

My lad feels like the writing is on the wall for him now and that his employer will find a way of getting rid of him in the near future.

These power trips by company owners really f u c k me off, f kin control freaks and power crazy and it’s the poor b a s t a r d working his nuts off to provide for his family who suffers or the people he hurts in an accident.

I gather that my son himself can get points on his licence and worse if he’s caught doing these hours.

So you can’t win, you get sacked for not breaking the law or in trouble with the law because you’re scared about your job!?

As posted earlier, find out the exact details of your sons work and read up on the regs and if you believe what he is being asked to do is in breach of the law then speak to Citizens Advice asap.

Very sadly, you are correct in much of your thinking though in as much as things are stacked up against employees. Companies won't like being taken to court over constructive dismissal for example but a change in the law has meant you now have to have worked for a company for a minimum of 2 years to be able to bring such a case. This effectively means that you can treat staff pretty much like sh it and get away with it for that period unless you can prove this also involves a breach of HASAW or the Equalities Act for example. This means that you could possibly find out that the company have acted illegally over their demands of your son and you could force them to change their ways (particularly if you got the HSE or ACAS involved) but they could then make life pretty miserable at work for your son if there is no danger of a constructive dismissal being brought.

[mickd1961]

Thanks for all of the advice boys.

Here’s the latest,

After issuing a verbal warning this morning they asked him this afternoon to work on Bank Holiday Monday and to go to Bedford first and to be in Norwich by 6.00am!😤

This involves having to set out at 12.45am, this was just the start of his working day.

He was offered time and a half and politely refused.

So they’ve given him the same run for Tuesday.