Shape and system

[HensonsPRman]

Apart from the awful run of injuries, our shape and system have been our biggest problem this season. I would also say it was Warnes biggest problem in the Championship

The conundrum is how to keep it tight at the back, without getting overrun in midfield and still retaining some attacking threat.
This season we have mainly been 433, that system requires one wide man to be quick and rapid, keeping the oppositions full back pinned back wary of being caught on the break and the other wide man more controlled mindful of covering. Ferguson and Ogbene were the ideal partnership.
In the main last season, when playing 433, one of the midfielders was tasked with getting beyond Hugill the lone striker.
This season, with different wide players, we have tasked Green with coming in from the left to support Hugill with one of the midfielders tracking the runner down our left. This has not worked, and Bramhall has come in for loads of criticism, but he has been frequently trying to cover 2 men.

Yesterday, we played 4 systems during the game. It was great tactical awareness you might say, but a good example of what is wrong this year so far. Fundamentally we have not found a shape and system that works for us with the players we have and the constant chopping and changing due to the injuries has not helped.

I have seen yesterday a lot calling for a return to 442 with Hugill Kelly/Nombe up top and there is some merit to that at home but the better teams will simply pick you off in midfield, it can work later in a game but from the start I am not so sure. A 442 that becomes 451 out of possession could work. Have we got the striker who can do that? Crooks was ideal in that role could Odoffin be that man. Another option would be to see what Appiah could do. His recent cameos have looked good, use the two left backs on the left and task either Rathbone or Odoffin to get beyond Hugill in a 433.

However we work this out for me this needs to be the focus in the break, find a way that we can be tight and still create chances.

One final thing, Hall and Peltier are going to be key to our survival, Peltier was class yesterday.

[uttis]

Apart from the awful run of injuries, our shape and system have been our biggest problem this season. I would also say it was Warnes biggest problem in the Championship

The conundrum is how to keep it tight at the back, without getting overrun in midfield and still retaining some attacking threat.
This season we have mainly been 433, that system requires one wide man to be quick and rapid, keeping the oppositions full back pinned back wary of being caught on the break and the other wide man more controlled mindful of covering. Ferguson and Ogbene were the ideal partnership.
In the main last season, when playing 433, one of the midfielders was tasked with getting beyond Hugill the lone striker.
This season, with different wide players, we have tasked Green with coming in from the left to support Hugill with one of the midfielders tracking the runner down our left. This has not worked, and Bramhall has come in for loads of criticism, but he has been frequently trying to cover 2 men.

Yesterday, we played 4 systems during the game. It was great tactical awareness you might say, but a good example of what is wrong this year so far. Fundamentally we have not found a shape and system that works for us with the players we have and the constant chopping and changing due to the injuries has not helped.

I have seen yesterday a lot calling for a return to 442 with Hugill Kelly/Nombe up top and there is some merit to that at home but the better teams will simply pick you off in midfield, it can work later in a game but from the start I am not so sure. A 442 that becomes 451 out of possession could work. Have we got the striker who can do that? Crooks was ideal in that role could Odoffin be that man. Another option would be to see what Appiah could do. His recent cameos have looked good, use the two left backs on the left and task either Rathbone or Odoffin to get beyond Hugill in a 433.

However we work this out for me this needs to be the focus in the break, find a way that we can be tight and still create chances.

One final thing, Hall and Peltier are going to be key to our survival, Peltier was class yesterday.

Great post Henson a conundrum indeed

[caytonmiller]

Horses for courses. Most teams we have played away go with varieties of 433 or 352.
We need to set up away to combat this threat and keep it tight.
Some will say the best form of defence is attack. Others say we need an outlet.
Imo another way is frustrating the home team until the home fans become disgruntled. It always happens when the millers come visiting as the home fans expect 3 or 4 goals against us.
451 with 5 solid midfielder who are willing to work box to box.
At home switching 442 to 451.
I've heard it so many times on this site. I'm not sure why people think 442 is such a bad idea.

[Heliosphan]

Apart from the awful run of injuries, our shape and system have been our biggest problem this season. I would also say it was Warnes biggest problem in the Championship

The conundrum is how to keep it tight at the back, without getting overrun in midfield and still retaining some attacking threat.
This season we have mainly been 433, that system requires one wide man to be quick and rapid, keeping the oppositions full back pinned back wary of being caught on the break and the other wide man more controlled mindful of covering. Ferguson and Ogbene were the ideal partnership.
In the main last season, when playing 433, one of the midfielders was tasked with getting beyond Hugill the lone striker.
This season, with different wide players, we have tasked Green with coming in from the left to support Hugill with one of the midfielders tracking the runner down our left. This has not worked, and Bramhall has come in for loads of criticism, but he has been frequently trying to cover 2 men.

Yesterday, we played 4 systems during the game. It was great tactical awareness you might say, but a good example of what is wrong this year so far. Fundamentally we have not found a shape and system that works for us with the players we have and the constant chopping and changing due to the injuries has not helped.

I have seen yesterday a lot calling for a return to 442 with Hugill Kelly/Nombe up top and there is some merit to that at home but the better teams will simply pick you off in midfield, it can work later in a game but from the start I am not so sure. A 442 that becomes 451 out of possession could work. Have we got the striker who can do that? Crooks was ideal in that role could Odoffin be that man. Another option would be to see what Appiah could do. His recent cameos have looked good, use the two left backs on the left and task either Rathbone or Odoffin to get beyond Hugill in a 433.

However we work this out for me this needs to be the focus in the break, find a way that we can be tight and still create chances.

One final thing, Hall and Peltier are going to be key to our survival, Peltier was class yesterday.

Nombe has stepped up to Championship football, but not only that, he's done so with a team who are really struggling. So for that reason, I'd like to see him get a run in the team and see if he can find his rhythm. I'd like to see him play a kind of hybrid number 10 role where he's alongside Hugill in possession but drops deeper out of possession (as you describe above). Maybe we could play a 4231 kind of shape with two midfielders sitting deep and offering the back 4 some protection, but also tasked with supporting the attack.

Viktor
Lembikisa Peltier Hall Bramall
Tiehi Cafu
Onyedinma Nombe Appiah
Hugill

Before anyone has a meltdown about no Rathbone in the team, the above is to illustrate the shape. We also have Odoffin, Clucas, Lindsay and Green who can give us plenty of flexibility in the middle of the park. And I guess that's the point really, depending on how the game is going, we'll need to be pragmatic with the shape and personnel on the pitch, just like we were on Saturday.

[Lolmorgan]

Nombe has stepped up to Championship football, but not only that, he's done so with a team who are really struggling. So for that reason, I'd like to see him get a run in the team and see if he can find his rhythm. I'd like to see him play a kind of hybrid number 10 role where he's alongside Hugill in possession but drops deeper out of possession (as you describe above). Maybe we could play a 4231 kind of shape with two midfielders sitting deep and offering the back 4 some protection, but also tasked with supporting the attack.

Viktor
Lembikisa Peltier Hall Bramall
Tiehi Cafu
Onyedinma Nombe Appiah
Hugill

Before anyone has a meltdown about no Rathbone in the team, the above is to illustrate the shape. We also have Odoffin, Clucas, Lindsay and Green who can give us plenty of flexibility in the middle of the park. And I guess that's the point really, depending on how the game is going, we'll need to be pragmatic with the shape and personnel on the pitch, just like we were on Saturday.

No melt down but Rathbones the only grafter in the team. Wouldn’t trust Green in the middle he’s bone idle.

[caytonmiller]

No melt down but Rathbones the only grafter in the team. Wouldn’t trust Green in the middle he’s bone idle.

You only have to watch yesterday highlights. Southampton goal nombe was the player trying stop the cross into the box. Shocking by green as he let the crosser run past him

[HensonsPRman]

Nombe has stepped up to Championship football, but not only that, he's done so with a team who are really struggling. So for that reason, I'd like to see him get a run in the team and see if he can find his rhythm. I'd like to see him play a kind of hybrid number 10 role where he's alongside Hugill in possession but drops deeper out of possession (as you describe above). Maybe we could play a 4231 kind of shape with two midfielders sitting deep and offering the back 4 some protection, but also tasked with supporting the attack.

Viktor
Lembikisa Peltier Hall Bramall
Tiehi Cafu
Onyedinma Nombe Appiah
Hugill

Before anyone has a meltdown about no Rathbone in the team, the above is to illustrate the shape. We also have Odoffin, Clucas, Lindsay and Green who can give us plenty of flexibility in the middle of the park. And I guess that's the point really, depending on how the game is going, we'll need to be pragmatic with the shape and personnel on the pitch, just like we were on Saturday.

Heliosphan, That's exactly the kind of shape I had in mind the problem potentially is that we would be open down either side as I am not sure Appiah and Fred will give the full backs the protection we need out of possession. One wide man needs to have electric pace to keep the full back on that side pushed back, the other wide man needs to be a bit more defensive minded.
I agree about Nombe we need to see if he can play that role. As you say when all fit we have plenty of midfield options to rotate.

[flourbasher]

Agree with the comment about Noombe
He was playing as an isolated no9 for large parts of yesterday and that’s not his game
When he had a partner at Exeter, Jay Stansfield, he did well
At the moment it’s crisis management but we just need to get the best out of him and I’m sure in time he’ll do well.