O/T:- Palestine / Israel

[jonnyt1]

There's only one person for the job now. Nigel Farage, come from down under and save us.

[Newish Pie]

As a socialist, I would find him acceptable, but what about Andy Burnham as a better candidate for Labour?

Yeah, I think Rory Stewart is probably the best Tory PM we never had. He comes over as a decent human being, clever, thoughtful, curious... pretty out of touch with ordinary people, but willing to try to engage. But all he seems to want to do is deal with the worst excesses of unfairness in the current system. The whole left or "wet" wing of the Tory party has pretty much gone... think he would have fitted in just fine in the last Major government, perhaps even under Cameron. But not now they've radicalised themselves.

It's interesting how Andy Burnham has transformed perceptions of him, perhaps by transforming himself. The mayor role has obviously given him a lot more experience (think he'd been a minister before) of political leadership.

My nomination for best PM we never had... John Smith. If he hadn't died suddenly, I think he'd have led Labour to victory in the next general election with a workable majority (but probably not of the same scale as the landslide Blair won)... think maybe you end up with a government that avoids some of the "New Labour" mistakes and is a bit less image obsessed. But who knows?

[Kent Magpie]

Yeah, I think Rory Stewart is probably the best Tory PM we never had. He comes over as a decent human being, clever, thoughtful, curious... pretty out of touch with ordinary people, but willing to try to engage. But all he seems to want to do is deal with the worst excesses of unfairness in the current system. The whole left or "wet" wing of the Tory party has pretty much gone... think he would have fitted in just fine in the last Major government, perhaps even under Cameron. But not now they've radicalised themselves.

It's interesting how Andy Burnham has transformed perceptions of him, perhaps by transforming himself. The mayor role has obviously given him a lot more experience (think he'd been a minister before) of political leadership.

My nomination for best PM we never had... John Smith. If he hadn't died suddenly, I think he'd have led Labour to victory in the next general election with a workable majority (but probably not of the same scale as the landslide Blair won)... think maybe you end up with a government that avoids some of the "New Labour" mistakes and is a bit less image obsessed. But who knows?

I had forgotten about John Smith... that is a very good shout indeed. I think you are right in what you say... but we will never know.

[Old_pie]

I've just watched a 2017 documentary by a reporter whose relative was involved in the Balfour Declaration. She had access to people on both sides.

It is available on BBC iPlayer so you'll need a licence to legally watch it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...-the-holy-land

There seems now to be no viable solution. Hatred despair and anger breeding outrage up outrage.

It is worth a watch if you are interested in the background to all of this.

There are a number of YouTube videos on the subject though I would be wary about their motives.

Also of possible interest is the Islam claim to Jerusalem.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...mmad+jerusalem

Very telling to me is that the Jews have built a thriving economy in a land that was deemed pretty barren.

[Magpies1959]

Very disturbing to hear that a large number of young people in this country see Hamas as freedom fighters, rather than terrorists.

[magpie_mania]

Very disturbing to hear that a large number of young people in this country see Hamas as freedom fighters, rather than terrorists.

Why do you think that is?

[i961pie]

Why do you think that is?

Do you think Hamas would cease their activities if they defeated Israel? They like Hezbollah and the Taliban etc. hate the west.

[keldsyke]

Why do you think that is?

'Cos it's on the internet so it must be true innit' (Nella Rose)

[Magpies1959]

I think in the main, they are easily lead by Hamas propaganda on various social media platforms, and the rest are just ignorant, and happy to follow the crowd.
I find it stunning how little is reported on the msm, about the maze of tunnels below Gaza that Hamas operate from.

[Kent Magpie]

Very disturbing to hear that a large number of young people in this country see Hamas as freedom fighters, rather than terrorists.

It was always thus - in my day it was the PLO. Israel defeated / discredited them... and they became Hamas. I feel this is history repeating itself.