Matchday thread: Derby v Lincoln

[MadAmster]

Good 3 points. That's about it for positives for me.

Poor opening 10 minutes, better side for the remainder of the 1st half without setting anything alight. Far too many awful passes made when they weren't necessary. Players need to stop trying to conjure up worldy passes that aren't on.

Pretty much the same story 2nd half. They started the better side and we took over after the opening 10 minutes. Still not anything to write home about.

In both halves we had the odd flurry of quick passes that led to nowt. Ringing the changes improved things but still not to the standards we have seen at times this season.

Happy with the result. Good goals but not the level of performance we want/need to be where we want to be come May.

[swaledale]

Just my opinion...but if we stay injury free I’d hope we have just enough to remain in contention for a top six place.

BUT!! Much will depend, I think, on the January window and whether we sell the likes of Cashin (almost certain apparently) and Bird. Clearly if we do, the first job will be to replace those two and then we have to hope that PW performs better in the market than I would argue he has done to date...a theory backed up by the fact that most of the current first choices were acquired by previous managers...one in particular.

Best case scenario for me...Cashin is sold for no less than £4m but is immediately loaned back (can’t see us having the same option with Bird). Use the money wisely to strengthen in the generally accepted areas and I can see us challenging for automatic promotion.

Still not entirely sure what brought about last season’s collapse. We seemed so confident and well set in January but then just seemed to carelessly drop crucial points. If we see a repeat performance then, imo, the current management is finished. Hopefully he’ll get it right this time, the new arrivals that have been more than hinted at will be a good fit and we’ll reap the benefit of our much vaunted ‘pre season’, the understandable absence of which was offered as a repeated excuse for our failings last time around.

How about you? Unpredictable ‘rash of injuries’ apart what do you think?

For me the collapse was obvious after the West ham FA Cup game, the squad had extra games due to good cup runs, including an energy sapping night at Liverpool and the Hammers at home. I'm hopeful that a stronger squad and the absence of those cup games will mean the mid season hiccup (there will be one) is less dramatic than last season. But the players just ran out of steam, the lack of a good pre season may have been a factor, but the age of the squad and the games being played were the real issues.

I'm not sure I expect any miracles in the January window, Warne seems to contradict himself, saying he made a mistake in signings, yet at the same time saying, the options in January are limited and good players cost more than in the summer, which Derby under the restrictions couldn't have signed anyway.

What he seems to be saying, is that there are funds and he will look to at least increase the numbers in the squad with players that are as good as we have. Mm well yes more bodies will help, but are we going to make a signing that galvanises the team? I doubt it.

It can of course work the other way, I remember with wee Billy, the team were doing well, he brought in 5 or so players and we struggled to remain in the play off places!!

I'm kind of puzzled by the remark that Warne hasn't done well in the transfer market to date, given the bulk of his squad is what he took over? Firstly, what do you expect him to do? Get rid of most of the team and start again? Obviously he builds on the core and focuses his recruiting on areas where its needed, which is why he brought in LB, RB, CB's and a good back up keeper.

This team, as was the team last year, are good enough to be top 6

[MadAmster]

Today sees the remainder of this round of games being played, ours having been brought forward to give us more time between games. Should give us an advantage at Wigan on Boxing Day and was, IMO, a shrewd move by PW.

3rd place after the Lincoln win, we could be back to 6th today but with a game in hand again...

[ramAnag]

I'm kind of puzzled by the remark that Warne hasn't done well in the transfer market to date, given the bulk of his squad is what he took over?

I’m just being objective. I think Warne has made about a dozen signings. Last season’s were poor and contributed nothing (yes I know there were mitigating circumstances). This season I’d suggest that Nelson and Nyambe have been indisputable successes -although we can’t be sure we’ll see the latter again-and I have high hopes for Wilson too. Vickers was a sensible and necessary, but as yet unproven, signing and the rest have been hit and miss, poor, injury prone or a collection of all three.
The facts are that this team is built around players signed, or given their first opportunities, by Clough (Forsyth) Rowett (Bird), Rooney (Cashin), Cocu (Sibley I think) and Rosenior (the majority, still including ‘keeper, captain and main striker).
After 16 months and three windows I’m expecting more than 2/3 (20-25%) successes in the market. Of course there’s still time for the likes of the three W’s and Bradley to come good and I hope they do. That’s it really. Happy Christmas.

P.S. That West Ham defeat you rightly mention as a turning point also coincided with a long term injury to Max Bird. To what extent that was a factor I’m not sure, but we should maybe remember if before shipping him out to Hull/Brum or wherever.

[swaledale]

Some good results for us today, Stevenage and Oxford both lose.

Objective or negative? Also he has had 1 window free of EFL restrictions not 3 and real football management is not just down to the players one buys, its not FIFA!!! IMO whilst its true the football at best has been "workman like", in the end in this league its league position that counts and as long as he keeps the team in the top 6 he is doing the job he was employed to do!

I still don't understand why you think its a valid criticism that he has built the current team (after 2 transfer windows) around the core of players that were already here? Isn't that what a manager is supposed to do?

Your being a tad harsh in respect of injuries, yes I know the wisdom of buying players or loans that have been injured has been discussed, but then its a judgement call, players do come back after injuries and its one way of getting a better quality player than would otherwise be possible in the circumstances, sometimes that gamble pays off sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes fans need to remember how Derby arrived at this situation, by spending millions on players who didn't perform. Now we have a few free transfers who have yet to prove themselves over a long period. I mean if players who cost millions can turn out to be duds then what are the chances that some of those acquired on free transfers may also not be as good as expected?

[ramAnag]

Some good results for us today, Stevenage and Oxford both lose.

Objective or negative? Also he has had 1 window free of EFL restrictions not 3 and real football management is not just down to the players one buys, its not FIFA!!! IMO whilst its true the football at best has been "workman like", in the end in this league its league position that counts and as long as he keeps the team in the top 6 he is doing the job he was employed to do!

I still don't understand why you think its a valid criticism that he has built the current team (after 2 transfer windows) around the core of players that were already here? Isn't that what a manager is supposed to do?

Your being a tad harsh in respect of injuries, yes I know the wisdom of buying players or loans that have been injured has been discussed, but then its a judgement call, players do come back after injuries and its one way of getting a better quality player than would otherwise be possible in the circumstances, sometimes that gamble pays off sometimes it doesn't.

Sometimes fans need to remember how Derby arrived at this situation, by spending millions on players who didn't perform. Now we have a few free transfers who have yet to prove themselves over a long period. I mean if players who cost millions can turn out to be duds then what are the chances that some of those acquired on free transfers may also not be as good as expected?

Objective...he’s made 14 signings I think...Springett, White, Ward, Vickers, Nyambe, Waghorn, John-Jules, Fornah, Wilson, Bradley, Washington, Elder, Nelson and Embleton.
I think you forget that’s more than a whole new team, of which only two or three have, imo, proved genuine successes...so far.
Can’t imagine you being so forgiving of any other manager we’ve had having such a ‘success’ rate.
The signs are currently good and I obviously wish him well...but, all I’m saying is...on the evidence above, his transfer dealings need to improve and he needs to bring in players who will make an immediate impact this time.

[Andy_Faber]

Objective...he’s made 14 signings I think...Springett, White, Ward, Vickers, Nyambe, Waghorn, John-Jules, Fornah, Wilson, Bradley, Washington, Elder, Nelson and Embleton.
I think you forget that’s more than a whole new team, of which only two or three have, imo, proved genuine successes...so far.
Can’t imagine you being so forgiving of any other manager we’ve had having such a ‘success’ rate.
The signs are currently good and I obviously wish him well...but, all I’m saying is...on the evidence above, his transfer dealings need to improve and he needs to bring in players who will make an immediate impact this time.

Looking at that list, my on-balance ‘out of 10’ with 7 being ‘as hoped for’ would be 1+1+4+7+7+5+4+5+8+4+4+4+8+1= 63 total = 4.5 average and 4 median which points to underperformance in the market

[Geoff Parkstone]

4.5 average would be below par if we had paid fees for these players. As I don't think we have (and assuming the wages weren't excessive) then I'd suggest the expectation par would fall such that his recruitment isn't as bad as suggested

[Andy_Faber]

4.5 average would be below par if we had paid fees for these players. As I don't think we have (and assuming the wages weren't excessive) then I'd suggest the expectation par would fall such that his recruitment isn't as bad as suggested

Yet using the same (of course subjective) assessment of Roseniors knocked together squad I arrive at around 7, with poor James Chester the only fail, so the comparison shows a shortcoming

[ramAnag]

Yet using the same (of course subjective) assessment of Roseniors knocked together squad I arrive at around 7, with poor James Chester the only fail, so the comparison shows a shortcoming

You rest my case!