Matchday Thread: Rams v Posh 1/1/24

[macstheman]

Half their squad are ex non-league with Barnet supplying about five, this just confirms there is talent down there which our scouts never seem to find! Good luck to them they showed that class does count even at this level!

[swaledale]

I was going to say, ‘this was one of the most one sided 2-2 thrashings I’ve ever seen’...and then...after a great start we got what we deserved.
Midfield horribly anonymous and if anyone’s been doubting the importance of the January window then they shouldn’t any longer.
I’d have taken the 9/12 points over ‘Christmas’ but this league is essentially split into two parts now...the top eight and the rest.
In that context this was a big defeat...men against boys (old men against hungry youngsters) and the boys won comfortably (4-2 wouldn’t have flattered them).
On the plus side...we’re still very handily placed, Cashin looks like he’s staying, Elder looked useful at last and there’s money apparently available in January, but today we were outplayed by a side that looked fitter, stronger and better organised in every area.
No excuses...need to get back on the ‘horse’ against physical Fleetwood on Saturday and work some wonders in the window.

A bit over the top rA! This is the side Derby beat 4-1 at there place in the Autumn remember? They also only just drew at home to a Barnsley side we beat comfortably one only has to take a look at the results in this league to see how results swing from one game day to the next. It was Posh's day today and even then they only just managed to win.

Its true that the games which to be fair have been tough ones, have caught up with the squad, but people seem to forget, many of our players that have been outside the first team are still coming back to fitness after injury. So perhaps no surprise that Posh looked fitter and stronger in this game.

For me it was one of those games that are inevitable after the run Derby have had and the number of games played. Again expecting players at this level to consistently play at a certain level is unrealistic.

The most important thing about the January transfer window will be not losing Cashin and Bird, any players that come in will be a bonus, but not necessarily ***** to how the rest of the season pans out - after all this squad got Derby to where they are, so by what logic is it not good enough to continue in the same vein?

IF we can get in 2 or 3 players that are as good or better than what we have that will be preferable, but wont guarantee anything, just as not getting them in won't mean our promotion bid is doomed.

[MadAmster]

A "comedy" of errors. Starting with the starting XI, maybe? Some of our not so young players looked off the pace and pace was the catalyst in the game. They were quicker just about everywhere. Hourihane and NML being the 2 "worst" IMO with Nat taking the biscuit. He roasts full backs for fun, usually, but I don't think he did his man a single time before his HT substitution. He totally forgot about tracking back too. On half a dozen occasions I was shouting at the screen for him to track his man. The first time led to their first goal, his "man" providing the assist. A totally preventable goal. No surprise that CH and NML were off at HT and Foz was on a yellow and had had a knock to his knee so probably wise to sub him off too.

Their 2nd saw our defence fail to follow the movement of an opponent and he nodded home, totally unmarked. I know I'm old fashioned when it comes to things like strikers hunting in pairs. I also remain old school when it comes to defending corners. A man at the post would have prevented their equaliser.

Their 3rd? How often have we seen us fail to properly clear the ball and pay the price? Nels and Cash got in each other's way, ball only partially cleared, came back in, Jones was stood in an offside position, one of our defenders got his head to it and it fell to Jones who poked it between JWs legs... because our player had purposely made contact with the ball, Jones was no longer deemed offside, in perfect accordance with the current offside Law.

All too often, as has happened quite a lot this season, they had players allowed to make 40 or more yards without a challenge. Get into 'em I say.

The better side on the day won. We get back up, dust ourselves down and we start over again.

[ramAnag]

A bit over the top rA! This is the side Derby beat 4-1 at there place in the Autumn remember? They also only just drew at home to a Barnsley side we beat comfortably one only has to take a look at the results in this league to see how results swing from one game day to the next. It was Posh's day today and even then they only just managed to win.

Its true that the games which to be fair have been tough ones, have caught up with the squad, but people seem to forget, many of our players that have been outside the first team are still coming back to fitness after injury. So perhaps no surprise that Posh looked fitter and stronger in this game.

For me it was one of those games that are inevitable after the run Derby have had and the number of games played. Again expecting players at this level to consistently play at a certain level is unrealistic.

The most important thing about the January transfer window will be not losing Cashin and Bird, any players that come in will be a bonus, but not necessarily ***** to how the rest of the season pans out - after all this squad got Derby to where they are, so by what logic is it not good enough to continue in the same vein?

IF we can get in 2 or 3 players that are as good or better than what we have that will be preferable, but wont guarantee anything, just as not getting them in won't mean our promotion bid is doomed.

Yep...I remember, Swale...better than you apparently...as the reverse fixture was back in August and finished 2-4...not 1-4.

Not sure what I’ve said that’s ‘OTT’. Fact is we were comprehensively outplayed yesterday in a way which I haven’t seen since Oxford at home, also last August.

If you don’t believe me, look at the stats...they sometimes lie but not on this occasion and although it always looks unlucky when you lose in the 93rd minute the truth is we were lucky to still be in touch by then, courtesy of one great Wildsmith save and Posh’s wastefulness.
Also look at MA’s comments and the half time substitutions...we were horribly outplayed in that first half and one of the reasons was that we had no answer to their greater mobility.

Things improved slightly in the second half imo but this was a warning. Yes, it may have been just one of those days and yes the run always had to come to an end but there’s half the season still to go and yesterday all too many...Bird, Hourihane, NML, Barkhuizen, Wilson, Forsyth...just looked knackered.

Also, can’t help feeling you’ve got a bit of a bee in your bonnet about us not being able to acquire players of the right quality because of financial restraints. You obviously have a point, but you need to look at mac’s comment yesterday. I had a look at their squad after reading what he’d written and he’s right...many of yesterday’s Peterborough team have been sourced from L2 or non league sides. That’s all about scouting and coaching and although I don’t think yesterday was necessarily anything more than an ill timed and disappointing setback it did point to the need for a combination of experience and youthfulness in the, now suddenly current, window.

[swaledale]

The OTT bit was about signing players in the Transfer window being vytal to our continued progress. I don't think it is, it wouldn't be an issue If we can get in some that add to the team, but I feel your over emphasising this point.

I don't have a bee in my bonnet about financial restrictions, I'm merely echoing what the situation is in January and what Warne and others have said. Its a difficult window and one can end up over paying for players if not careful. Derby aren't in a position to spend over the odds, nor would I want them to, thats what led to our downfall last time.

I don't disagree about Posh's squad, but one fact is overlooked, Posh weren't in administration 18 months ago, they didn't have their academy gutted to keep the club afloat and have had more time to scout and sign players they can develop, all things Derby had to restart. Indeed we have signed some promising youngsters, but it takes time to develop them into players that can slot into the first team, not sure Derby fans are that patient, Posh fans expect their team to be bobbing back and forth between this league and the championship, they survive by finding cheap gems, developing them and then selling them on and they have been doing it for years.

Yesterday, the team were off their game just as much as they were on it against Oxford, it happens I anticipated a dip, a game where our luck would run out, it happened yesterday. I'm not disputing the fact that yesterday we were 2nd best and the better team won, indeed that was my comment in my first post.

Does that necessarily point to we need new signings? Well yes if we can get some quality, but its unrealistic to think we will be signing a L2 player who will take L1 by storm in the second half of the season. I'm hopeful that we can possibly get a couple of good quality loans in and maybe sign a good player permanently.

[ramAnag]

The OTT bit was about signing players in the Transfer window being vytal to our continued progress. I don't think it is, it wouldn't be an issue If we can get in some that add to the team, but I feel your over emphasising this point.

I don't have a bee in my bonnet about financial restrictions, I'm merely echoing what the situation is in January and what Warne and others have said. Its a difficult window and one can end up over paying for players if not careful. Derby aren't in a position to spend over the odds, nor would I want them to, thats what led to our downfall last time.

I don't disagree about Posh's squad, but one fact is overlooked, Posh weren't in administration 18 months ago, they didn't have their academy gutted to keep the club afloat and have had more time to scout and sign players they can develop, all things Derby had to restart. Indeed we have signed some promising youngsters, but it takes time to develop them into players that can slot into the first team, not sure Derby fans are that patient, Posh fans expect their team to be bobbing back and forth between this league and the championship, they survive by finding cheap gems, developing them and then selling them on and they have been doing it for years.

Yesterday, the team were off their game just as much as they were on it against Oxford, it happens I anticipated a dip, a game where our luck would run out, it happened yesterday. I'm not disputing the fact that yesterday we were 2nd best and the better team won, indeed that was my comment in my first post.

Does that necessarily point to we need new signings? Well yes if we can get some quality, but its unrealistic to think we will be signing a L2 player who will take L1 by storm in the second half of the season. I'm hopeful that we can possibly get a couple of good quality loans in and maybe sign a good player permanently.

Again we largely agree, but Posh’s ability to find ‘gems’ from Scotland/lower leagues is something we would do well to emulate and haven’t done for many years.

You said earlier we need two or three additions and have referred to the need to strengthen up front and in midfield. We agree! I have never ever mentioned spending more than we can afford, but Warne himself has said he made a mistake last year by only adding a couple of lightweights and thinking he’d already got enough. He hadn’t and if the indicators from yesterday are anything to go by we have to see that tired performance as a warning if we are to avoid the risk of deja vu.

P.S. Our luck didn’t ‘run out’ yesterday. In fact we were actually lucky to still be in touch by HT imo. Neither was it down to the referee or other misfortune. We were just, on the day, up against a fitter, better organised team.

[swaledale]

Again we largely agree, but Posh’s ability to find ‘gems’ from Scotland/lower leagues is something we would do well to emulate and haven’t done for many years.

You said earlier we need two or three additions and have referred to the need to strengthen up front and in midfield. We agree! I have never ever mentioned spending more than we can afford, but Warne himself has said he made a mistake last year by only adding a couple of lightweights and thinking he’d already got enough. He hadn’t and if the indicators from yesterday are anything to go by we have to see that tired performance as a warning if we are to avoid the risk of deja vu.

P.S. Our luck didn’t ‘run out’ yesterday. In fact we were actually lucky to still be in touch by HT imo. Neither was it down to the referee or other misfortune. We were just, on the day, up against a fitter, better organised team.

Warne's comment was about not getting players that weren't necessarily better than in the squad, but making additions to the squad to increase the depth. We aren't in that position, other than through injuries, the squad is bigger and isn't missing key positions such as full back for instance. Yes there are areas where the right player would or could make a difference, but its not IMO essential to our making progress.

That tired performance came on the back of a run of games close together over Xmas and the New year, I don't agree its an indication of the squad needing reinforcements, its as much, which Mac referred to, a mistake of selection by Warne who didn't freshen the team up enough to start with. I guess he didn't want to disrupt a winning team, but expecting any team to keep going over that run of games was wishful thinking. It was typical tired performance from a team tired from having played so many games over a short period - I do wish they would sort this fixture log jam at this time of year out, it does neither fans or players a favour.

I referred to our "luck" running out in as much as if we had got a draw that would have been lucky! As you said, a more comprehensive 2-2 thrashing you hadn't witnessed!! In games we have won we have had good luck and won 1-0. in other we have dominated and then been caught late and drawn 1-1, luck is many things, though they do say one makes one own!!

The only thing we disagree on is to the need for signings - IMO if we lose nobody and keep John-Jules we would be fine. If we can add a striker and a midfielder so much the better it can only be of benefit, though as we both know any signing whether loan or perm is a gamble, they may work out they might not.

[ramAnag]

Warne's comment was about not getting players that weren't necessarily better than in the squad, but making additions to the squad to increase the depth. We aren't in that position, other than through injuries, the squad is bigger and isn't missing key positions such as full back for instance. Yes there are areas where the right player would or could make a difference, but its not IMO essential to our making progress.

That tired performance came on the back of a run of games close together over Xmas and the New year, I don't agree its an indication of the squad needing reinforcements, its as much, which Mac referred to, a mistake of selection by Warne who didn't freshen the team up enough to start with. I guess he didn't want to disrupt a winning team, but expecting any team to keep going over that run of games was wishful thinking. It was typical tired performance from a team tired from having played so many games over a short period - I do wish they would sort this fixture log jam at this time of year out, it does neither fans or players a favour.

I referred to our "luck" running out in as much as if we had got a draw that would have been lucky! As you said, a more comprehensive 2-2 thrashing you hadn't witnessed!! In games we have won we have had good luck and won 1-0. in other we have dominated and then been caught late and drawn 1-1, luck is many things, though they do say one makes one own!!

The only thing we disagree on is to the need for signings - IMO if we lose nobody and keep John-Jules we would be fine. If we can add a striker and a midfielder so much the better it can only be of benefit, though as we both know any signing whether loan or perm is a gamble, they may work out they might not.

Same for everyone Swale. Yes there’s a lot of football over Christmas but it’s the same for all teams and the only thing that makes a difference is the size of the squad and the manager’s ability to rotate.

John-Jules? Showed what he’s capable of with one cracking shot yesterday, but is he reliable? Don’t doubt his ability...just his reliability in terms of availability and given that the two W’s are proving to be ‘sick notes’ I think we need another striker, along with legs and guile in midfield, to match the ambition.

[Andy_Faber]

Same for everyone Swale. Yes there’s a lot of football over Christmas but it’s the same for all teams and the only thing that makes a difference is the size of the squad and the manager’s ability to rotate.

John-Jules? Showed what he’s capable of with one cracking shot yesterday, but is he reliable? Don’t doubt his ability...just his reliability in terms of availability and given that the two W’s are proving to be ‘sick notes’ I think we need another striker, along with legs and guile in midfield, to match the ambition.

An observation about JJ. The much maligned Collins, as well as scoring twice yesterday, ran himself into the ground in both attack and defence for 90 mins. In contrast, JJ who was on for less time so could have outrun Collins, seemed to just jog about when not on the ball. An extra bit of off the ball graft might have saved us

[ramAnag]

An observation about JJ. The much maligned Collins, as well as scoring twice yesterday, ran himself into the ground in both attack and defence for 90 mins. In contrast, JJ who was on for less time so could have outrun Collins, seemed to just jog about when not on the ball. An extra bit of off the ball graft might have saved us

Is Collins still ‘much maligned’? Certainly was last year but his goal scoring record is now around 25/65 over one and a half seasons at Derby, meaning that not only can he score but he also turns up!
As things stand, he’s the only one of our current strikers I’d offer a contract to next season.