Was LW overrated

[Notts78]

You coach confidence and concentration into them by practice practice practice. You recreate each scenario (as far as possible) with your attacking/midfield players and if player X continuosly gets caught if the ball comes to him under pressure then you practice getting the ball to him quicker or his actions if it is a late ball (row Z if that's all he can do). A skill is taught/learned by repepition and that repetition breeds confidence. We all know this and it started to show at Stockport and the following games (we played a quicker ball out of and across the defence and players gave the defence more options for a quick pass, it was a Eureka moment!) but went to pieces when Tranny pushed us because our defensive players have always been asked to do something alien to them (retain possession and recycle the ball at all costs). You can see them trying their best but sometimes under pressure make avoidable mistakes all due to their uncertainty with "You have to keep possesion at all costs". That Tranny game (and others when we have folded) said to me there couldn't have been enough time on the training ground instilling confidence. And there has been 18 months with basically the same group of players. They should be ticking like clockwork by now but if that's the price LW was prepared to pay then so be it (history now). All my opinion of course.
I fully agree with Woody below.

Coach confidence and concentration? How? Both are psychological and someone like Hoddle was vilified for trying things outside the norm.
I think we should just agree to disagree on LW and what he brought to our club and the players.

[SmiffyPie]

Coach confidence and concentration? How? Both are psychological...

You never learn a new skill? You gain confidence in your skill (football in this case and with professional footballers!) by practice and applying the things you are taught. The more you practice the more natural the task becomes and the more natural the feel then the more confident you are in performing what is becoming a natural action.
But you are right, we should agree to disagree on LW (if you are unable to accept the concept of instilling confidence then there really is no point in the discussion).

[Elite_Pie]

You never learn a new skill? You gain confidence in your skill (football in this case and with professional footballers!) by practice and applying the things you are taught. The more you practice the more natural the task becomes and the more natural the feel then the more confident you are in performing what is becoming a natural action.

And isn't that exactly the blueprint for our training sessions? All the players talk about constantly repeating drills so they become second nature. But you can't completely coach mistakes out of players, especially League 2 players. We could start to hoof it out of the box but it would come straight back 90% of the time. Luke Williams took risks which led to us scoring 172 goals in 72 games while conceding 89. Very few fans are treated to an average of 3.63 goals per game. Stop passing in our box and we'd probably concede less, but I'm absolutely certain we'd also score less.

[SmiffyPie]

And isn't that exactly the blueprint for our training sessions? All the players talk about constantly repeating drills so they become second nature. But you can't completely coach mistakes out of players, especially League 2 players. We could start to hoof it out of the box but it would come straight back 90% of the time. Luke Williams took risks which led to us scoring 172 goals in 72 games while conceding 89. Very few fans are treated to an average of 3.63 goals per game. Stop passing in our box and we'd probably concede less, but I'm absolutely certain we'd also score less.

Yes it is (should be) the blueprint. I was countering the suggestion that confidence cannot be achieved through repetition on the practice pitch and why we still repeat those self-same silly mistakes 18 months later. Yes 3.63 gpg is entertaining football and should be almost as satisfying as not dropping silly points. I just might sit down this week and go through YouTube and see the points tally if silly mistakes and the consequences didn't happen.

[Notts78]

Yes it is (should be) the blueprint. I was countering the suggestion that confidence cannot be achieved through repetition on the practice pitch and why we still repeat those self-same silly mistakes 18 months later. Yes 3.63 gpg is entertaining football and should be almost as satisfying as not dropping silly points. I just might sit down this week and go through YouTube and see the points tally if silly mistakes and the consequences didn't happen.

There are loads of sports where repetition doesn’t always breed success… snooker, Golf, darts to name a few. Like football there are variables that impact performance.
I liken it to a penalty… there isn’t a training session that repeats the pressure of taking one. Just like a defender being pressed or a striker finishing a chance.

[Elite_Pie]

I just might sit down this week and go through YouTube and see the points tally if silly mistakes and the consequences didn't happen.

My advice would be don't waste your time. You could probably get a number of goals we wouldn't have conceded by not taking risks, but you won't get a number on goals we wouldn't have scored if the risk hadn't been taken in similar circumstances when the risk paid off.

It took me a while to get my head around what we were trying to do. Early in the promotion season I was one of those thinking 'what the f**k are we doing passing around in our own box?'. After a few games I started to see it, and by Christmas 2022 I was fully on board. Even though it was alien to what I'd seen in the previous 50 years, goals scored and points won converted me. I stopped moaning about short corners and pissing around at the back because I saw the risk v reward was heavily in our favour. A dinosaur evolved into modern man!

[i961pie]

Look at Pep's Bayern record and then look at who he replaced, Jupp Heynckes. Heynckes had Bayern runners up and then won the champions league. Pep took over and never got close with pretty much the same team, arguably a better one even. Like I said, look under the bonnet and Pep's record isn't so shiny, same as dare I say it, LW?

So this overrated manager took charge of Barcelona and won the la Liga, Spanish cup and champions league (the youngest manager to do so)
in his first season he went on to win the league the following two years another cup and another champions league. He got rid of Ronaldinho, Beto and Eto and signed Alves, Keita and Pique and bought in Busquets and Pedro and left with a win record of 72.47%. And produced one of the best club sides in the world.
At Bayern he was there for three years won the Bundesliga every year and two cups, he also won the EUFA super cup and the World super cup.
They lost in 2 semi finals of the champions league and he left with a win record of 75.16%.
At Manchester City he’s won 5 premier league titles, 4 league cups, 2 FA cups been in 2 champions league finals winning one with a win rate of 72.3%. Plus another EUFA super cup. There is no logic to your statement he is overrated?
You base your opinion on him not winning the champions league with Bayern in only 3 seasons.
It took Sir Alex Ferguson 13 years to win his first with Man Utd. and Wenger and Shankley never won it how crap were they?
I think you are looking under the wrong bonnet.��

[Chicken Balti Pie]

So this overrated manager took charge of Barcelona and won the la Liga, Spanish cup and champions league (the youngest manager to do so)
in his first season he went on to win the league the following two years another cup and another champions league. He got rid of Ronaldinho, Beto and Eto and signed Alves, Keita and Pique and bought in Busquets and Pedro and left with a win record of 72.47%. And produced one of the best club sides in the world.
At Bayern he was there for three years won the Bundesliga every year and two cups, he also won the EUFA super cup and the World super cup.
They lost in 2 semi finals of the champions league and he left with a win record of 75.16%.
At Manchester City he’s won 5 premier league titles, 4 league cups, 2 FA cups been in 2 champions league finals winning one with a win rate of 72.3%. Plus another EUFA super cup. There is no logic to your statement he is overrated?
You base your opinion on him not winning the champions league with Bayern in only 3 seasons.
It took Sir Alex Ferguson 13 years to win his first with Man Utd. and Wenger and Shankley never won it how crap were they?
I think you are looking under the wrong bonnet.��

Barcelona was already one of the finest technical teams ever when he took over.

Bayern he regressed, look up their views of him. Bayern not winning the Bundesliga is an embarrassment, it happens so often. The Bundesliga is like the SPL or Ligue1 with one team who wins everything and the occasional rival team who puts in a challenge.

SAF or Wenger never took over a champions league winning side and reversed their fortunes. Heynckes got them runners up and then won the thing the previous two years. You probably don't really follow German football but he was about to be sacked before he jumped to Man city

[i961pie]

Barcelona was already one of the finest technical teams ever when he took over.

Bayern he regressed, look up their views of him. Bayern not winning the Bundesliga is an embarrassment, it happens so often. The Bundesliga is like the SPL or Ligue1 with one team who wins everything and the occasional rival team who puts in a challenge.

SAF or Wenger never took over a champions league winning side and reversed their fortunes. Heynckes got them runners up and then won the thing the previous two years. You probably don't really follow German football but he was about to be sacked before he jumped to Man city

When an argument cannot be backed up by logic and yours doesn’t then it is pointless continuing it. He is regarded by the vast majority in the football world has the best coach in the world that will do for me his achievements speak for themselves.

[sidders]

My advice would be don't waste your time. You could probably get a number of goals we wouldn't have conceded by not taking risks, but you won't get a number on goals we wouldn't have scored if the risk hadn't been taken in similar circumstances when the risk paid off.

It took me a while to get my head around what we were trying to do. Early in the promotion season I was one of those thinking 'what the f**k are we doing passing around in our own box?'. After a few games I started to see it, and by Christmas 2022 I was fully on board. Even though it was alien to what I'd seen in the previous 50 years, goals scored and points won converted me. I stopped moaning about short corners and pissing around at the back because I saw the risk v reward was heavily in our favour. A dinosaur evolved into modern man!

Now can you give some of the same medication to Suckerman?