O/T Mr. Bates v The Post Office.

[MadAmster]

Isn't PO a limited company? IMO that should mean a period of lesser profits and idem dividend payments rather than Joe Public coughing up, shouldn't it?

[swaledale]

I've been following this since 201 when private Eye first raised it following investigations by Computer Weekly. There was also a BBC Panorama programme investigating the issue in 2015.

Its clear that vested interests at the top of Fujitsu and the Po were determined to cover up the issue and delay stop compensation claims etc. when it started to become obvious what had happened.

As an aside Michael Keegan, whose wife Gillian is the Education Secretary, was formerly the UK chief executive and chairman of Fujitsu, whose Horizon IT system was at the heart of the baseless prosecutions of sub-postmasters over two decades and is now I believe employed by the current government in the cabinet office!

Fujitsu have a number of lucrative government contracts make of all this what you will, but there is evident conflict of interest, reputation management, people covering each others backs, a commercial company more concerned with its profits and reputation than the truth and 100's of ordinary men and women whose lives ahve been destroyed or severely impacted by this. Its also just the tip of the iceberg, regarding the incestuous world of politics and business where the main concern in about money, profits and personal gain and reputation and no care for the consequences.

[Andy_Faber]

I've been following this since 201 when private Eye first raised it following investigations by Computer Weekly. There was also a BBC Panorama programme investigating the issue in 2015.

Its clear that vested interests at the top of Fujitsu and the Po were determined to cover up the issue and delay stop compensation claims etc. when it started to become obvious what had happened.

As an aside Michael Keegan, whose wife Gillian is the Education Secretary, was formerly the UK chief executive and chairman of Fujitsu, whose Horizon IT system was at the heart of the baseless prosecutions of sub-postmasters over two decades and is now I believe employed by the current government in the cabinet office!

Fujitsu have a number of lucrative government contracts make of all this what you will, but there is evident conflict of interest, reputation management, people covering each others backs, a commercial company more concerned with its profits and reputation than the truth and 100's of ordinary men and women whose lives ahve been destroyed or severely impacted by this. Its also just the tip of the iceberg, regarding the incestuous world of politics and business where the main concern in about money, profits and personal gain and reputation and no care for the consequences.

…and on a wider point, replace the word Fujitsu with many many other concerns

[ramAnag]

I've been following this since 201 when private Eye first raised it following investigations by Computer Weekly. There was also a BBC Panorama programme investigating the issue in 2015.

Its clear that vested interests at the top of Fujitsu and the Po were determined to cover up the issue and delay stop compensation claims etc. when it started to become obvious what had happened.

As an aside Michael Keegan, whose wife Gillian is the Education Secretary, was formerly the UK chief executive and chairman of Fujitsu, whose Horizon IT system was at the heart of the baseless prosecutions of sub-postmasters over two decades and is now I believe employed by the current government in the cabinet office!

Fujitsu have a number of lucrative government contracts make of all this what you will, but there is evident conflict of interest, reputation management, people covering each others backs, a commercial company more concerned with its profits and reputation than the truth and 100's of ordinary men and women whose lives ahve been destroyed or severely impacted by this. Its also just the tip of the iceberg, regarding the incestuous world of politics and business where the main concern in about money, profits and personal gain and reputation and no care for the consequences.

Interesting response. So do you think yesterday’s ‘performance’ by the new pantomime villain, Stephen Bradshaw, who really didn’t seem bright enough to have been an official investigator, was just more ‘smoke and mirrors’ as part of an attempt to protect those in higher PO and Fujitsu positions and who are actually the real villains?

AF...can you be more specific about the ‘many other concerns’?

[Andy_Faber]

Interesting response. So do you think yesterday’s ‘performance’ by the new pantomime villain, Stephen Bradshaw, who really didn’t seem bright enough to have been an official investigator, was just more ‘smoke and mirrors’ as part of an attempt to protect those in higher PO and Fujitsu positions and who are actually the real villains?

AF...can you be more specific about the ‘many other concerns’?

‘Concerns’ meaning ‘companies’, ‘enterprises’ etc.

[swaledale]

Interesting response. So do you think yesterday’s ‘performance’ by the new pantomime villain, Stephen Bradshaw, who really didn’t seem bright enough to have been an official investigator, was just more ‘smoke and mirrors’ as part of an attempt to protect those in higher PO and Fujitsu positions and who are actually the real villains?

AF...can you be more specific about the ‘many other concerns’?

No I would say he is just the sort of "jobsworth" who enjoyed the power of ruining peoples lives, without a thought as to the reality of the circumstances. Believe me, you wouldn't think many of the people who have "risen to the top" in organisations are very bright. You may or may not be astounded as to how many people get away with stuff simply because they have "the right background" or are representing an organisation considered to be "above board"

Bates was clever, he refused to sign off the accounts that showed a deficit, because he knew it wasn't down to him. But he still lost his contract, home, livelihood and was unable to take any action because the PO with costly lawyers could simply afford to fight any legal action.

But it was clear that senior people within both the PO and Fujitsu knew about the issues and were determined to do whatever it took to prevent them from being revealed, using their legal muscle and down right lies deceit and intimidation to do tis.

I recommend you read the Privet Eye account which I believe is available on the internet now.

[swaledale]

‘Concerns’ meaning ‘companies’, ‘enterprises’ etc.

One only has to look at cases that have happened in NHS trusts where NHS Executives have threatened and intimidated whistle blowers to avoid health care scandals becoming public to see that people in power will do almost anything to protect their position and reputations.

[ramAnag]

As I say...having been involved in ‘whistleblowing’ I’m not surprised at what people representing an ‘above board’ organisation can get away with, although I am surprised at the scale and longevity of this particular case.

Ian Hislop certainly did a good job on Jake Berry. How hard that is I’m not sure.

[Andy_Faber]

Believe me, you wouldn't think many of the people who have "risen to the top" in organisations are very bright. You may or may not be astounded as to how many people get away with stuff simply because they have "the right background" or are representing an organisation considered to be "above board"

I guess you were addressing this at rA, from my POV I DO believe you because I’ve seen it (some at very close quarters) again and again. ‘The squires and the serfs’ still exists throughout business, and I say that despite having no grumble with those with genuine skill and graft who earn a high reward.

[swaledale]

I guess you were addressing this at rA, from my POV I DO believe you because I’ve seen it (some at very close quarters) again and again. ‘The squires and the serfs’ still exists throughout business, and I say that despite having no grumble with those with genuine skill and graft who earn a high reward.

Likewise I speak from experience and indeed having to consider the option of leaving an organisation with no reference and no compensation merely for pointing out how it was breaking the law! I did in the ned agree a NDA and got a payoff, but found a way of ensuring that the required regulatory body got a detailed dossier on what was going on with no link back to me, which had the result required though it was still a risk to me if anyone had twigged, until the action was taken.

One can only imagine the impact on people who had sunk their life savings into a business and then were bankrupted or worse convicted of a crime they didn't commit in the PO scandal.